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Author
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Comment
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sexyorc
Pie
(10/14/02 12:09:40 pm)
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Protection 10 foot radius - spells.
My party is in the middle of the fight with the water temple. They are not doing so well. The water elemental is just smashing them. The only thing saving the survivors right now (we had to break in the middle of combat) is the clerics Prot Evil 10' as it keeps out summoned creatures.
In the spell discription (actually it's in the Prot Evil description that the spell references) it states...
"The protection against contact by summoned or conjured creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature."
So what counts as an attack? Can a mage within a circle of protection cast magic missile on a creature outside of the circle and not be in danger of a counter attack.
Here is what will probably happen with my group. The cleric that the spell is centered on will stand at the exit of the water temple. Behind him outside of the circle a mage will empty a wand of magic missiles on the water elemental. As the spell will cover the entire corridor the elemental will not be able to get past the cleric to beat on the mage.
So I suppose I have a couple of questions.
1.) Does a spell that effects a creature count as an attack as far as allowing the summoned creature in the circle?
2.) What if the creature is attacked by something outside the circle - but the circle prevents the creature from getting to the attacker?
Any ideas would be great.
Thanks,
Alex
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Zenon
Pie
(10/15/02 4:37:17 am)
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Re: Protection 10 foot radius - spells.
I would treat it the same way you would treat an attack ending an Invisibility spell - any type of action that will directly cause damage to the summoned creature will allow the creature through to the warded creatures.
However, things like Summon Monster I-IX would not count as a direct attack and could be cast and directed without voiding the Protection spell, or in your case the mage could cast from outside the back of the Protection through the spell area to the creature outside the front without causing the Protection to fail. The mage is not a warded creature by the spell. (You may either consider this cheezy or a good tactical use of spells, personally I think it's pretty good thinking!)
However - Remember that most spells are line of sight, if you can't see it, you can't target it. The elemental would be smart enough to get out of sight of the mage, pehaps falling back to a Water Temple cleric for healing.
While this is happening, send up some non-summoned Temple forces (like the Skum) to deal with that pesky cleric supported by some archers to fill the mage full of arrows.
Then send the elemental back in!
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Fellwind 
Pie
(10/16/02 10:59:27 am)
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Re: Protection 10 foot radius - spells.
Think about it this way.
There's a 20ft wide, 30ft long room on the other side of the door that the cleric is blocking.
The mage stands outside the protection circle, but in the room the cleric is keeping the water elemental from entering.
The mage can see the elemental, so he can hit it with MM.
I don't think that will end the protection because no protected creature is attacking the elemental.
I am a Thrust-ship.
I am small and tricky - where you think I am, I probably am not. I can work very fast, but I tend to go about things in a round about way, which often leaves me effectively standing still. I hate rocks. Bloody rocks. What Video Game Character Are You?
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"You must not Ph34r, Ph34r leads to anger, anger leads to hate. Hate leads to beatdowns, and B34td0wnz Sux0r."
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Grumgarr
Pie
(10/17/02 3:47:50 am)
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Re: Protection 10 foot radius - spells.
Here's how I run Circle of Protection spells (having had the same questions arise).
An attack by a creature in the warded area (where an attack is a melee or missile attack, or anything that causes damage or forces a saving throw) breaks the protection for that creature.
The summoned foe can then enter the circle but can only physically attack (with natural weapons) someone who has broken the protection by attacking.
The cleric would still be immune to the elemental's attacks (as if warded by a personal Prot. Evil/Chaos/whatever) but the elemental wouldn't be hedged out - and the wizard is in for a world of hurt...
BUT...only summoned creatures which are attacked by a >warded< creature can enter the circle - if the mage hides behind the circle and blasts away, the elemental had best go hide - and this is a fairly clever use of a third level spell (try submerging - even in line of sight, I'd say a submerged water elemental is near impossible to see if you're above the water and more than 20-30' away, if it's not moving fast anyways).
If there were two summoned creatures, the hedging out protection would only be broken for whichever one was attacked.
Anyway, that's how I run Circles (party cleric has Law domain and regularly pops out a Circle vs. Chaos).
Grumgarr
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serleran
Pie
(11/6/02 11:38:26 am)
Reply
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Re: Protection 10 foot radius - spells.
If the cleric actively tries to keep the elemental from crossing the threshold of the door, preventing it from attacking the wizard, the elemental would get a spell resistance check to break the circle.
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DM Dan76
Pie
(11/6/02 12:05:19 pm)
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Re: Protection 10 foot radius - spells.
I don't think that the elemental would get an SR if the cleric were simply standing in the doorway. The cleric isn't trying to force the creature, or in otherwords push him back using the protection radius. The creature would be trying to force it's way through, but that's the whole point of the spell, to not let those types of creatures get through the area of effect.
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Abelard
Orc
(11/6/02 1:30:14 pm)
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Re: Protection 10 foot radius - spells.
Au contraire, the elemental would get a SR check to break the circle, but not because the cleric is blocking his way. The warded creature gets the SR check automatically regardless of the warded creature's actions.
The cleric standing still, blocking the creature's progress through a doorway, would not automatically end the effect, as it would if the cleric tried to "push" the elemental back.
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DM Dan76
Pie
(11/6/02 2:26:44 pm)
Reply
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Re: Protection 10 foot radius - spells.
Ah, yes spell resistance. I was mistaken. It would get a SR check against any spell, wether targeted or area effect.
My opps.
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madfox
Orc
(11/7/02 12:39:17 am)
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Re: Protection 10 foot radius - spells.
But do water elementals have SR? Mind you, I do not have my MM at work, but a quick glance at SRD learned otherwise, or am I overlooking a special benefit of the water temple?
Anyway, I agree with the consensus of the people: it is perfect tactic and it should work. With one difference, what was the exact command of the priest who summoned the elemental and how much freedom do you think a summoned creature has got? Obviously, a free willed elemental does not have an intelligence of - and it would most definitely hide. A summomed elemental though is somewhat dependend on the commands it got and how open for interpretation those commands are. If the cleric who summoned the elemental is still there though, then that cleric will let the elemental retreat while the cleric would try to either dispel the spell or just send in creatures less affected by the spell.
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