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(10/18/02 6:35:18 am)
Suggested BoVD Add-ins
Yes, this is blatant Best of the Boards trolling...but valid, I think.

For those of you who have the BoVD (and DO join in once you get it, if you don't have it yet), here's the place to list specific suggested additions/substitutions for RttToEE from the BoVD.

As an example (well, sort-of...don't have BoVD myself yet).

From the "sealed section" of Dragon Magazine 300, there is a "cult" for Kuo-Toa worshipers/spawn, as well as for Aboleths. It would be quite easy, and very appropriate, to apply a level or two of either one to non-aquatic folk within the temple. Kelashein (human high priestess of Water) would be a logical candidate, which might reduce somewhat the animosity between her and her Kuo-Toa "followers".

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

(10/18/02 7:52:59 am)
Don't forget to apply torture rule in the game where there is a cheif torturer can use his tool to torture certain prisoners.

In fact, you can have torturer rules in case if someone (PC) is captured and see how long a person can endure a torture..

It is interesting that there are some spells that can be used to kill celestials. There should be a lair where there are mass mulitation of celestials where the cults successfully killed invading celestial platoons.

It would have been neat to see stats of Elemental Evil Lord.

Cancer Mage and disciple of Demogorgon or Grazz't would have been an excellent addition to the temple.

Maybe disciple of Orcus, too..

you can have wandering Jerren (evil halflings) under control by the neutral evil druids for an additional challenge

(10/18/02 8:16:55 am)

Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
I'm almost finished reading BoVD (I'm on page 177), so I guess I should start thinking about what can be incorporated into RttToEE. Many parts are obviously great for inclusion, so I'll try to be systematic about it. First, here are some general thoughts.

Chapter 2: Variant Rules

There are many things here that work very well in this adventure, but others that do not unless changes are made to the adventure.

Possession actually is less useful unless more fiends are added. A good choice would be the succubus watcher hiding outside the recovered temple. Rather than be physically present, she could leave her body inside the temple, and possess a rock (or other inanimate object) near the temple entrance. When she detects intruders, she could attempt to possess one of them, infiltrating the party, and either steal thoughts (which she reports back to her superiors) or take control of the character at an opportune moment (e.g. in battle).

Sacrifice rules can be used at any of the various altars in the adventure.

Any enemy capable of bestowing curses would benefit from the alternate curse rules. More powerful enemies could utter a dying curse upon the PCs.

The new diseases are also an obvious new rule to use.

More to come...

Chartam Plicatus

(10/18/02 9:15:03 am)
Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
Guys, don't get me wrong...I appreciate your input, but can we try for more specific examples here? I'm looking for more of a cut and paste, less of a "well you could do some places".

Chartam's suggestions like the Succubus at the Temple are great. But as for the other ones...

Hedrack, and any member of the Triad, could utter a dying curse. Appropriate ones would be X, Y, and Z....

More fiends? Where would you add one? What kind of fiend? How would it use the posession rules?

New Diseases? Which ones would you use, and what areas would you have infected with them?

I'm not trying to pick nits, at least not too badly...but I'm hoping we can get some solid, definate, and concrete usable bits.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

(10/18/02 9:33:30 am)

Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
Just trying to give an overview before getting into specifics. I'm working on it. Please be patient. Thanks.

Chartam Plicatus

(10/18/02 10:34:28 am)

Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
Okay, let's try again. Here are some specific examples of BoVD usage in RttToEE.

Chapter 1: The Town of Hommlet

I think that there should be little BoVD material used in Hommlet. It's too early in the adventure, and this is the place that is still "normal". Not until we get to more exotic locales should the flavour of the BoVD come through. That said, there are a few minor things that can be added at this point.

Chatrilon Unosh
- Add these spells to his spellbook: death grimace (since he's more of a spy and less of an assassin, he probably won't be using this spell much), stupor (useful if he takes a prisoner).

28. Mill
Master Dunrat
- Changes to prepared cleric spells: replace inflict minor wounds with slash tongue, replace read magic with preserve organ, replace cause fear with sorrow.
- Add evil spell component: humanoid child's eye. (BoVD 45-46)

Chapter 2: The Moathouse

22. Torture Chamber
- Use the detailed descriptions of torture devices to provide flavour. (BoVD 37-38)
- The lingering evil leaves a cold chill in the room and grants the ghouls the effect of a bless spell. (BoVD 35)

24. Excavated Relics
- The black scepter contains a spring needle trap. ("Spring Needle Trap in a Sword Hilt" BoVD 40)

32E. Black Sun
- Changes to prepared cleric spells: replace mending with slash tongue, replace bane with angry ache, replace death knell with wave of grief, replace contagion with sadism.
- Add evil spell component: humanoid finger. (BoVD 45-46)

Chartam Plicatus

(10/18/02 11:32:54 am)

Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
Chapter 3: Ghost Town and Ruined Temple

Temple Key
3. Ruin and 12. Adept's Quarters
Alubya and Krebbich
- Consider adding the following spells to the adept spell list for evil adepts: 0-Level - no light, preserve organ; 1st-Level - bestow wound, drug resistance, sacrificial skill, sorrow, stupor, suspend disease; 2nd-Level - addiction, entice gift, masochism, sadism, sap strength, wave of grief, wither limb.

Chapter 4: The Hamlet of Rastor

In spite of the new drugs offered in BoVD, Tanbrosh is well-designed to work in this situation. Here it is in the new description format, with a few changes to match the new drug rules:

Tanbrosh: A dried pellet made from a flowering growth in the Rastor area, Tanbrosh is dissolved under the tongue.
Type: Ingested DC 25
Price: 6 gp (sold at 5 cp in Rastor)
Alchemy DC: 18
Addiction: Vicious
Initial Effect: -2 points of Wisdom damage.
Secondary Effect: +2 alchemical bonus to Strength and Constitution.
Side Effects: The addict suffers addiction damage on the first day of withdrawal, becomes catatonic on the second day, and dies on the third.
Overdose: None.

Chartam Plicatus

(10/18/02 11:40:29 am)
Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
Sound good, I like finally having stats for Tanbrosh, definitely a BoB addition.

(still waiting for my BoVD to arrive - grrrrr!) :(

(10/18/02 3:13:30 pm)
Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
So what the hell is this BoVD?

not heard of it at all.

little drunk Dinsdale

(10/18/02 3:35:18 pm)
Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
BoVD = Book of Vile Darkness

(10/18/02 6:20:52 pm)
Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
I would also suggest the whole Lord of the Rings within the fane. Several of the PC's may notice that Thrommel is wearing a dull grey ring and later on(or before hand that Hedrack is also wearing a similiar ring).

Each time Thrommel has a a little rebellious spurt Hedrack uses the power of the ring to put Thrommel back in his place. The Master Ring has 10 slave rings tied to it, the master ring could easily be in possession of one of the triad.

When the rings, as a twist, are removed from the fingers of whom the PC's defeat then they simply dissolve.

As for other varient rules, within the town of Nulb disembodied screams and low whispers are due to the excess amount of undead in the area. If the party has a paladin who uses detect evil the ground itself gives off an evil fealing (make sure the dodo doesn't start digging).

I would also say replace one of Hedracks 7th level spells with bestow greater curse and use the varient curse rules in the book. Every valuable metal item the target touches turns to lead or the targets most valued item breaks and becomes useless.

Replace Summon Monster IV with Damning Darkness or stop heart.

Replace Greater Command with Morality Undone.

If Hedrack or another powerful individual is killed have him give off a dieing curse(only do this once or it looses its dramatic effect. "We killed him, now we get cursed again")

Hope this helps

Milhouse: Maybe we should post them on the internet. Bart: No, we need to reach people who's opinions actually matter.

(10/20/02 5:43:04 pm)
BoVD applications
I have not read the entire book yet but what I have read so far I really like. I had Tychon use the spell stop heart much to one of my players dismay. The PC did live though so I don't know why he was complaining.

As my group just penetrated the Inner Fane last session I only looked at things that could apply to the clerics there and 2 spells really jumped out at me.

The First should use the masochism spell. It is only 3rd level and gives him a +1 on attacks, saves, and skills for every 10 points of damage he takes. With well over 100 HPs and a heal spell this guy can rack up some major bonuses to hit. Coupled with the fact that the guy's bed is an iron maiden and he's into self-flagellation makes the spell seem like a natural choice.

The Third should have sadism for the same reason. This gives the same type bonus for every 10 points of damage the Third can deal to the enemy. It specifically mentions that the Thrid is sadistic and despicable and when not required elsewhere will torture slaves and prisoners to death in her bedchamber! Definitely a likely spell for her to choose.

These are 2 that I noticed as I prepped for the Inner Fane. I am sure there are many others. If I come across anymore that are worthwhile I will post them.

I must say I didn't think I would want to buy this book but the more I heard about it contents the more it interested me. Once I was able to take a look at some of the material in the book the decision to buy it was an easy one.

I think it does exactly what it was advertised to do and that is make the forces of evil come to life in a campaign. It gives DMs that create those evil NPCs more options to bring those same characters to life for the PCs. The fact that you can harrass those same PCs with the same content is just a perk of the job. Needless to say I would highly recommend picking this book up as it has alot of great info to use.


(10/20/02 6:04:54 pm)
Chapter 1: The Town of Hommlet

I think that there should be little BoVD material used in Hommlet. It's too early in the adventure, and this is the place that is still "normal". Not until we get to more exotic locales should the flavour of the BoVD come through. That said, there are a few minor things that can be added at this point.

In the millhouse, there should be certain torture instructment that helps the cults to extract information from Living Jaroo (not the Doppelganger version) and torture certain citizens to take over their idenitification. Of course, this helps the adventurers to prepare themseleva against insane and depraved cultists.

Think of it as Pulp Fiction style where a man is sodomized by gun shop owner and police officer and where the gimp is released from the chest. Think of something similar to that concept.

It can motivated the adventurers to hate cultists even more.. with passions..

even certain evil alignment will not willing accept cultists for their depraved thoughts!

(10/20/02 11:05:46 pm)

Re: well..
Without putting any of the other posters down, I'd definitely nominate Chartam's posts for instant BoB-hood. I especially like it that you've formatted the entries. Good work :)

Siobharek is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

(10/27/02 12:18:41 am)
Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
A while back there was a lot of debate over what goodies Tessimon might have conjured up using the sacrificial altar. The BOVD has the perfect answer - suitably twisted, thematically appropriate, and a nasty shock for adventurers buffed to the gills on fire protection....

Characters who close to 20' or nearer of Tessimon may (Spot DC 20) notice a faint gleam of gold in her mouth whenever she speaks or casts a spell with a verbal component. This is their only warning of a fiendish power.

Tongue Studs of Hell Breath ("Eyes of the Elder Elemental")
Each of this pair of studs is a rough diamond shape with small dot (the post) in the center. Together, they bear an unpleasant resemblance to a pair of staring golden eyes. The "Eyes" allow Tessimon to spit a 50' line of hellfire 3 times per day, inflicting 3d6 points of unholy damage with no save allowed.


Rurik has been killed!
"You bastards!"

(10/29/02 8:14:46 am)
Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
I intend to allow Evil-domain clerics access to BoVD spells from level 1. Other clerics will be allowed access after level 6, and Sorcerers and Wizards will be given access to one BoVD spell per level.

I want to mix it up a bit, but not go over the top. If these spells truly are as vile as they are portrayed, they should be rare.

As for the Prestige classes, as soome have already mentioned, the masochist etc. are perfect fits.

I would LOVE to see a "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil: Redux" published in a year or so, as a complete overhaul of the adventure accounting for splatbooks, BoVD, and MMII.

Perhaps a web project for those of us here?


(10/31/02 7:13:27 am)

Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
Finally got my copy of BoVD in. Starting a read-through of my own.

My first initial suggestion?

Dying Curses are definately appropriate, but only to priests of "Big T" himself. Priests of the EEE don't really know any better and have no particular desire to achieve oblivion, but priests of "Big T" know full well (at least, those that are in on THE PLAN) that there isn't going to be a world to be raised into anymore.

Specifically, even though it's more than the typical (usually Dying Curses are supposed to be rare), I would suggest:

1) Master Dunrat. He's just high enough level, and he'll give the PCs a good solid taste of what lies ahead and just how deep the evil runs. Especially when the good Cannoness Y'Day can't remove it.

Recommended curse: Night be as Day. Darkvision 60' granted, even if previoiusly not posessed, and even through magical darkness. Light isn't simply the "light blind" of Orcs and Drow...light is literally blinding. The PC can no longer see in a lighted area (treat it as if a dark area).

Objects that cast or project Darkness will provide him "light" to see by...and the PC can see by the light of a Torch of Revealing. You might drop a few more such torches and cones into the adventure if you go this route.

Recommended cure: To remain in an area of light as brilliant as daylight (requiring lots of lanterns or magic) for 24 hours without interruption.

2) Terrenygit (the Troglodyte priest at the west gate). Again, he's well positioned for a "get serious" approach. Terrenygit is a priest of "Big T", and this is a good opportunity to even more clearly show the difference between the two.

Recommended Curse: You Shall Carry My Scent! The inflicted PC now suffers from Troglodyte stench, only detectable to good-aligned individuals. Any time the PC becomes angry, excited or afraid, he exudes a troglodyte-like stench.

Recommended Cure: To achieve a state of complete calm for an entire week's time, followed by bathing in holy water. A monastic order could be very helpful with the former.

3) Either Hedrack or Naquient, whichever would have the better dramatic effect. Typically, this would be Hedrack, but Naquient has played a big role in some people's campaigns, so go with whichever one will have the best emotional impact. Hedrack not imposing a dying curse might grab the PC's attention and clue them in that his attitude is a bit different.

(no recommendations)

4) Potentially ALL of the Triad. Oblivion comes, so being raised is meaningless. Strike out from beyond the grave and do whatever is necessary to assure the end.

Recommended Curse: For the First and Third, inflicting their fetishes (Masocism and Sadism, respectively) on the entire party is a good starting point, although that's potentially not sufficient. Judge for yourself.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

(10/31/02 7:24:31 am)

Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
Excellent. I'm getting my copy this afternoon, so once I've read a bit, I'll hopefully be able to make some suggestions of my own. Then we'll only have to get it formatted on a chapter-by-chapter basis, and BoB here we come.

Siobharek is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

(11/21/02 9:27:02 am)

Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
I've finally found the time to sit down with my copies of both RttToEE and the BoVD side by side, so instead of going by memory, I've a chance to look things up.

Here, then, are some more additional suggested changes:


Add to Chartam's suggestions:

Chenashi: Exchange Bane for Sorrow in 1st level spells memorized.

Master Dunrat: Exchange Animate Dead for Vile Lance in 3rd level spells memorized. Replace the feat Leadership with the feat Evil Brand.

Vacra: Add Darkbolt and Darklight to her spellbook (not typically memorized).


Add to Chartam's suggestions:

Gren: Exchange Command for Heartache


Lareth: Exchange Poison for Damning Darkness in 4th level spells memorized.


Didn't someone post a full list of spell-swaps for the Crater Ridge Mines a while back? Did it somehow not make it into this thread?

Tac: Replace the feat Alertness with Vile Ki Strike (and reduce his spot/listen scores accordingly)


Bethe and Victor: Add Death Grimace to spellbook. Memorize it when "sent out" on missions.

Chymon: Replace the feat Snatch with Vile Natural Attack (Chymon can only Snatch small targets at best anyways)

Guard Towers: The Sorcerers in charge of each tower ought to have a few doses of Sannish each.

Still working...


This is for all of you who hate the half-dragon Tyrannosaurs. The CR is one higher, but I think it's reasonably comparable.

2 Corrupted Tyrannosaurus: CR 11; Huge Beast; HD 18d10+108; hp 195, 208; Init +0, Spd 40 ft.; AC 21 (touch 8, flat-footed 21); Atk +22 Melee (10d6+15+9 Vile, bite); Face/Reach 10 ft. by 10 ft./15 ft.; SA Improved Grab, Swallow Whole, Disruptive Attack; SQ Scent, Fast heal 9, DR 10/+3, Acid Immunity, Darkvision 60'; AL NE; SV Fort +17, Ref +11, Will +7; Str 32, Dex 10, Con 23, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 8.
Skills and Feats: Listen +10, Spot +10

Still working...

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

(11/21/02 10:25:13 am)
Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
I've made my Will save several times now to buy this and MM2 to add more flavo' to my campaign, but it's not going to last long, especially with these continued suggestions and me wondering what the heck it all does :)

Anyway, my only suggestion for now is that when you wrap this all up Siob (or whoever), that you make it a separate sticky topic (unless you have limits on those things). It just seems like it will get nice and juicy big since it's such a great match and deserves a place of its own.

Just my 2 cp worth...

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(11/21/02 12:02:33 pm)

Re: Suggested BoVD Add-ins
ZansForCans, while it will (admittedly) be a large entry, there's quite a few of those already. When it's all boiled down and tidied up, it'll make a reasonable post in the BoB.

If we sticky too many things, we'll eventually run out of room for the ongoing threads.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

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