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Finsteel 
Pie
(10/30/02 5:40:32 am)
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Players lurking on the board!
Last monday I was running the campaign as usual and I glimpsed one of the guys reading this board while gaming! As I found it out he naturally stopped. That really upset me >: but I let it pass at the moment. Next time however they will most likely meet the Hedrack's assassin squad as they have already got his attention in any case...

I'm still steaming a little and wondering if I should keep the campaign running or not...

-Finsteel-

Cordo Crowfoot
Pie
(10/30/02 5:42:21 am)
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Re: Players lurking on the board!
Um, no. IMHO, at a minimum you need to kick him out of the campaign immediately. I would then have a little sit down with the rest of the group.

Siobharek 
Orc
(10/30/02 5:49:18 am)
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Re: Players lurking on the board!
You let your players surf the internet while gaming...?

Now that would be the first thing I'd put a stop to. Then I'd do my very very best to find out what the loser managed to read before you caught him. Then I'd change whatever he read. Then I'd boot him if it wouldn't hurt the campaign too much.

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Kadh2000 
Orc
(10/30/02 5:57:49 am)
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ezSupporter

Re: Players lurking on the board!
If the player's reading the board this late in the game, you've got to wonder if he hasn't been the whole way through. If he has, has it shown in his actions to date?

If he's able to keep what he's learned out of the game then ask him not to keep using the site until the module is over. If he isn't, you just have to withdraw him from the game.

-----------------------------------
Cry woe, destruction, ruin, loss, decay; The worst is Kadh, and Kadh will have his day

Edited by: Kadh2000  at: 10/30/02 5:58:09 am
Finsteel 
Pie
(10/30/02 6:03:02 am)
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Re: Players lurking on the board!
I don't really let the players surf the internet during the game but I occasionally send them some game-related material by e-mail between the sessions. Thus he could have been checking some of that data.

The part of changing what he read or could be reading at this moment is quite difficult as this board has discussions about everything conserning the module. I can't be sure what he has read already or will read in the future.

Most likely I will change at least the items of the NPCs and some of their tactics.

-F-

Roland Delacroix
Pie
(10/30/02 10:14:40 am)
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completely IMO
I would throw him out immediatlly. This is complete and utter BS. I don't allow cheaters in my group and thats exactlly what he was doing, reading the answer key. If he's really a good friend tell him he can come back after the group finishes RttToEE.

Why are you punishing his CHARACTER for a problem with the PLAYER!? You need to sit down with him, either alone or with the group, and discuss this. If you just gloss over it, or just take away some dumb magic item you will be sending the message to your party that cheating is ok. Mixing in-game punishments for OOG behavior is just bad DMing. He violated a trust between two REAL people. He should suffer the REAL consequences of violating that trust, which he obviouslly didn't care about to begin with.

Unless you basically throw out the entire module at this point the whole game is tainted. He could already know every NPC's weakness's, the whole plot, etc.

I've had this problem before, but not with this module. IME DMing with that player becomes more and more difficult. You keep asking yourself, 'how else is he cheating in my game? Did he really get that critical? Hmm, i didn't see that die roll, thats alot of damage for a fireball..' This leads to a very uncomfortable game to DM. I've had to ask a few friends to not come back. I made it clear that they made me uncomfortable DMing since I felt I could no longer trust them. They were hurt, but they knew that it was because of THEIR choice to cheat in the first place. We are still friends, and i'll play in his game, but he doesnt play in mine.

Infiniti2000
Pie
(10/30/02 11:24:40 am)
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Re: completely IMO
I agree with you 100%, Roland. Even worse, I feel that the player violated a trust not just with the DM, but with the rest of the group. I would think that everyone in the group would be justifiably upset, so I would bring it up with everyone.

domconnor
Pie
(10/30/02 1:13:00 pm)
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Re: completely IMO
LMAO - reading this board at all is a bad sign for a player.

Reading this board WHILE actually playing the game is taking things well and truly beyond a joke. I don't ban any of my players (as they are all long time RL friends) but I would dock quite a lot of xp for that. Not only is it unbelievable cheating - it is a direct show of disrespect to you as DM.

Sit the little bugger down, tell him (while the rest of the group are there) how annoyed you are, why it is totally unacceptable, how much work you put into being a DM and don't see why it should all be spoilt by someone cheating - then dock the hell out of his xp...... then pick on him in combat :O)

Thats what I would do.

Dinsdale

GreenGemstone
Orc
(10/30/02 9:53:07 pm)
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Re: completely IMO
Kick him out, real friends don't do that kind of crap. It shows lack of respect to you as a person to simply look up the stuff on the internet. As was said before, don't change the adventure because of one sour grape, just kick the player out for cheating. If he begs or whines tell him every action has a consequence.

Frankly, if you have only caught him once, odds are he has done it before.

Milhouse: Maybe we should post them on the internet.
Bart: No, we need to reach people who's opinions actually matter.

Finsteel 
Pie
(10/30/02 11:33:21 pm)
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Re: completely IMO
Thanks to you all. If the player has been reading this particular thread he should have his conscience should be pounding already. Next week I will probably bring them all empty character sheets and start a new Kingdoms of Kalamar campaign.

-F-

Siobharek 
Orc
(10/30/02 11:44:43 pm)
Reply
Re: completely IMO
Only, whatever you do - don't bring knives <ducks>

(In Scandinavia, the Finns have an undeserved reputation of finishing arguments with knives. I even attended a house-warming thrown by a Finnish girl where everybody were given a glass of neat vodka and a cardboard cut-out knife.)

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Edited by: Siobharek  at: 10/30/02 11:45:23 pm
Finsteel 
Pie
(10/31/02 12:21:22 am)
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Re: completely IMO
Don't worry Siobharek. I think Denmark is a safe distance away from Finland so my knives wouldn't fly there even if they missed my players. ;) I think I will leave the knives home though. Instead I could bring my sword collection... Fits the theme better ;)

I must still think about the solution though. I wouldn't like to 'waste' the rest of this wonderful module so I need to talk with the guys seriously.

-F-

Andorax 
Orc
(10/31/02 6:50:13 am)
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Re: completely IMO
Finsteel, remember...modules don't have shelf-lives. It'll be ready to run for this group, or another, at a later date. In the meantime, you definatley need to find out what's up with that player's attitude.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Caedrel
Pie
(11/1/02 2:38:03 pm)
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Re: completely IMO
Especially since there's nothing to stop him from looking up stuff on the next module you decide to run. You'd have to create your whole campaign yourself, which is much more work...

Cordo Crowfoot
Pie
(11/1/02 8:56:37 pm)
Reply
Re: completely IMO
That's why you kick him out. I don't care if it is a long time friend or whatever, that's what I would do. It's a clear betrayal of trust.

And yes I have cancelled a campaign when I found out the players read a book I specifically told them not to read.

The Unforgiven85
Pie
(11/2/02 4:28:10 am)
Reply
Re: completely IMO
I have one player in my group of 6 knowing some of the things hanging around in this module, but this wasn't because of intended cheating.

Just because he was added later while the party was already in the CRM and he has a friend DMing the very same module ahead of our party and he knew quite a few things. Like D'Gran and the dragon behind the fire door (where they still haven't been yet)
But he has managed to keep all this quiet and not have his character act opon it in a different way.

Just my 2 cents: He might wel have been cheating: a very very bad thing to do, but if he's serious about wanting to play and he's a good friend I would let him have a go at it and if it doesn't work out you can always throw him out still..

Pjack
Pie
(11/2/02 6:48:58 am)
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Re: Players lurking on the board!
My first piece of advice is not to take anyone's advice. :) Seriously, you know your group better than any of the rest of us. Do whatever is appropriate for your situation.

That being said, I would try to handle the situation constructively. On one hand, it's bad that he was trying to gain an unfair advantage. On the other hand, he's clearly involved and interested in the game. This is something to be encouraged.

You could do what my fiance used to do when she was running live-action games, and found someone cheating: you make 'em a co-GM. "Oh, so you want to read up on the module? Sure! Here ya go! Your character is now an NPC. Help me plot the next session." :)

I also think it's important to not get mad. It's only a game. It's unfortunate that your player was so wrapped up in the game that he felt the need to cheat, but getting upset won't help. it's kind of flattering that he was so involved in your game. (Flattering in a twisted sort of way, but flattering, nonetheless.)

I recommend talking to him in private. Calmly describe the problem, and ask him what /he/ would like to do about it. Work out a solution for the current problem, and figure out between the two of you what to do if the problem comes up in the future.

Or just threaten him with bodily harm. That seems to work, too. :)

Pjack

J Ashstaff
Pie
(11/2/02 8:40:03 pm)
Reply
Re: Players lurking on the board!
I'd like to second the thoughts of Pjack. While getting angry and exerting your ultimate authority over a dishonest player is a natural response, its not always the best.

Making him/her co-dm when the player really wants to play is a great way to ensure no future module reading.

The real problem here is the breaking of trust, because if you let this slide you will be thinking what else does (s)he know?

But Pjack's solution will give some positive re-inforcement for the player to not do it again.

I hope that you don't stop the game because of this player. Haven't you devoted long hours pouring over this module memorizing it and planning it out. Why should this guy destroy all of that for you?

Besides Kalamar is over rated and too high powered.

Edited by: J Ashstaff at: 11/3/02 2:28:52 am
Finsteel 
Pie
(11/4/02 4:26:10 am)
Reply
Re: Players lurking on the board!
We are having the next session tonight and I have calmed down during a very very nice weekend. I'm going to continue the game as it is and see how things turn out.

One reason why I told in the very first message about the Hedrack's invisible assassin squad (his assassins and invisible stalkers) was just to find out if the player reads the boards and uses the information for their advantage. Oh and as the next session is still upcoming he could be reading this message too. And if he still dares to use this information to his their advantage, I will find a solution with him. Co-DMing could be nice but if he isn't up to do it then I'll find a new player.

-F-

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