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Kenmis
Pie
(11/2/02 6:54:33 pm)
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Water Temple Attack (long, oops!)
Hey everybody. I just got done reading the water temple attack thread, and i have a question of my own that's not related to that thread.
Ok, IMC, the party members went north instead of south when they first entered the main gate. They wiped out the earth temple, went farther up and wiped out the bridge complex too. At that point they htought htey had a lot of money and the cleric was high enough level to start creating some good items, to the voted to go back to Verbonoc (spelling changed IMC because i think the original name is pretty silly) and spend some time/money equiping themsevles. This also gave me some time to run a side-adventure for the Paladin, who wanted to become a hunter for the dead but did not meet the prereq of having the "touch of the undead".
So a month went by and the party came back with a few +2 items and some other toys to play with. While they were gone, the Main gate was restocked, (of course) and the water temple moved in to the bridge complex and the earth temple. Through divinations they found out who was responsible for clearing the way for them, and decided to make the party an offer: help them assault the ifre temple. I had them send the koa-tua theif that spies on them. Milowick was her name? I forget.
Anyway, the party smells a trap and doesn't bite. So i grab a couple of friends of mine who aren't in the campaign and we roleplay out the Water Temple assault. Now, here's where i have a problem.
I thought i read the areas where they were going pretty carefully, but perhaps i made a mistake. The Koa-Tuas get to the bridge, and are wearing temple robes and water temple symbols. Because of this, nobody even questions them up to the Salamanders. They make a decent bluff roll, and the Salamanders roll crap on their sense motive check, beleive them, and let them pass through. They say the password and go into the alter...
Nobody's there! as the discription goes in the book, the palce is empty. They read the scroll, make the check, disintigrate the altar, and simply walk out. When the place starts shaking, the Salamanders realize what's up and attack. They do poorly against that many combatants and are cut down in 3 rounds or so. Not long enough for anyone else on the OTHER side of the main altar room to arrive.
From there, the Koa-Tuas simply go back to the bridge complex and leave.
WAS it supposted to be that easy? How would you all have done it differently?
Also, how does this affect the Fire Temple? What will it do to relations between the two? All out war? The water temple is stretched pretty thin right now, as they control pretty much the northern half of the CRM from the Main Gate up to their normal territory.
Any Suggestions would be really great.
Thanks!
Kenmis
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Siobharek 
Orc
(11/4/02 12:44:12 am)
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Re: Water Temple Attack (long, oops!)
I think it says that there isn't a hope in hell of getting past the salamanders without a fight. Personally, if I were a salamander I wouldn't let a kuo-toa pass, no matter the Bluff roll.
That's why it'll be difficult. The side passage from the salamander guard post are only covered by heavy cloth. Firre or Tessimon are bound to hear, and then the sh*t's gonna hit the fan.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
BogonTheDestroyer
Pie
(11/4/02 8:29:23 am)
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Not necessarily a cake walk...
Having just run this assault, here are my thoughts...
First, remember the glyph of warding covering room 132 (I think). The salamanders are probably going to hear the commotion caused when that little baby goes off. It is hard to scream in agony quietly.
I agree with Siobharek here. The guys coming to destroy the temple are Kuo-toa. There is no way they are going to get past the salamanders without some sort of fight. IIRC, the salamanders have +14 to spot and listen, so good luck disguising your fishy nature from 2 of them. I do believe that the hell hound would also be able to smell them (not a mechanic, but makes sense that they would smell kinda fishy ). My salamaders were not to let anyone by without the express permission of one of their superiors.
I also wonder how a group of 4 kuo-toa, Nilbool, Urlug, and a water mephit would make quick work of the salamanders. The salamanders have good attack bonuses, 3 attacks a round, and most importantly, DR 10/+1. None of the attackers could damage the salamanders unless they were given some extra magic items. This is the exact reason that the Water Temple recruited my PCs. They new they would have trouble getting past the salamanders without some added muscle.
IF they defeat the salamanders, odds are that Firre is going to here them. Granted, a series of really bad listen checks could be a problem, but the salamanders would be making quite a commotion, yelling 'alarm!' or 'Intruders!' in ignan. If they are under a silence effect, one of them would break for Firre's room and signal for backup. Remember, these guys are guards. They will have plans and backup plans for handling an invasion. They did it before with the Earth temple.
Once Firre is alerted, all heck should break loose. He can organize a quick temple defense.
One other thing I changed to add to the temple defense...
The Burning skeletons are an auto defense force. They are alerted any time someone without a fire temple symbol enters the temple, and will immediately and mindlessly attack them. This includes fire temple monsters that do not bear the symbol, but the skeletons will also respond to Fire temple cleric commands on who to attack. This is a free action, no need to 'Command Undead' unless the platform has already been destroyed.
BogonTheDestroyer
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/4/02 1:10:48 pm)
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Re: Not necessarily a cake walk...
Bogon's dead on. Only thing is: Have you seen the scale of that temple. That runt Firre will have a hard time running around fast enough to raise the temple troops. That's what did in Tess for me. She was alone for 4-5 rounds, and that was just too much.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Kenmis
Pie
(11/4/02 1:25:26 pm)
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Read Carefully. :)
Looks like i didn't read that part carefully enough.  I THOUGHT i'd read all the rooms nearby (within 60 feet or so) and didn't see anybody that could hear.
Well, reguardless of that fact, i'm going to keep it the way it is and try to figure out the best type of reaction from the Fire Temple. How does losing the altar *really* hurt them? Ok, they lose the sword of fire, the abuility to make a 50,000 gp item once a month, and the abuility to summon Salamanders, which they didn't really like anyway because they were proving difficult to control.
Do they have the strength to counter-attack? Would this level of conflict get noticed by the doom-dreamers? My thought on that is no, since the Earth temple was wiped out by the fire, and nobody really noticed.
Thanks for the feedback!
Kenmis
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/4/02 11:53:06 pm)
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Re: Read Carefully. :)
They need the altar - it's that simple. It doesn't have to be such an elaborate affair as it used to be, but they need the altar. I'd say that Tessimon, Firre, and Skassik the Salamander will devote all their time and resources towards creating a new one. Make it two weeks. 3, tops.
So the temple will be effectively out of commission for at least one week while the clerics formulate a plan. Then perhaps some sort of strike teams can begin making raids on water temple areas. For one thing, I'd say that the water bridge will get hurt bad, and fast - a strike team could enter through the South Gate, head East and hit the bridge before anyone knew what was happening. Remember also that the Fire Gate is pretty well stocked. Maybe Tessimon can commandeer someone from D'Gran's crowd.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
deafdungeonmasterRIT
Pie
(11/5/02 12:06:00 am)
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well
If Fire temple are destroyed by Water Temple..
how does it affects Imix?
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/5/02 12:22:30 am)
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Re: well
Damn... You're right, DeafDM. Imix is obviously chosen because the temple of fire is the most powerful. If it isn't, what then?
Two options:
Either remake it all, get a 3e conversion of Ogremoch, get hold of an old map of the Water Node (or make one up: It was a large body of water with a big central island and caves around the edge), and go with it from there.
Or...
The fact that the fire temple has attracted a half-elemental (the medusa cleric who's with Imix) is enough to warrant his being the first of teh Elemental Lords to be summoned.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Thrommel
The DM
(11/5/02 5:44:30 am)
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Re: Imix
The reason Imix is the first to be summoned is because the DD's only have the Elemental Power Gem for the Fire Node.
I get the impression that the Elemental Princes need to stay in their respective nodes as much as possible. So even if the DD's wanted to summon one of the other princes, they couldn't.
FYI, the other elemental power gems are with the demon in the Fire Node, Area 8.
-Thrommel, who resides in his own personal pocket dimension called The Basement Node.
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/5/02 6:13:42 am)
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Re: Imix
Bleh, there's always someone with a book to put a perfectly skewed explanation straight...
I wonder where they got the fire gem from (or is that covered, too)?
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Andorax
Orc
(11/5/02 7:29:43 am)
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Tessimon Survival
One thought for those who haven't run the Fire Temple yet, but are following the discussion.
I used a simple tactic to great effect with Tessimon. Keep the platform up HIGH above the fire pit, near the hole in the ceiling, and kneel down to take cover from direct LoS.
Stand up, blast with spell, kneel down to take cover. Manouver the platform to best advantage.
Worked very well until the platform was greased and Fredrick bull's rushed her off into the flames.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
SSShadowcat7
Pie
(11/5/02 9:28:27 am)
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Re: Tessimon Survival
I used Andorax's suggestion for the most part. I ruled that once it was above the illusionary ceiling she could see a decent part of the room. Her line of sight was blocked if someone was standing within, say, 10' of the fire pit, but other than that she could see the entire room.
She just stood there, safe behind hr illusionary wall, and blasted the PCs with spells for a bit while they dealt with the rest of the temple forces. It was tough for them, having a spellcaster somewhere but not being able to find her. Tha ceiling may be illusionary but don't even worry about having anyone save against it to notice it unless they really study it. No one in my party did.
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