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Ssendam
Pie
(11/5/02 2:41:33 pm)
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Hedrack
Ok, this guy has proved to be a royal pain in the ass to my players. They have decimated his minions, but still, in some way, shape or form, he has managed to repel them - make them vacate the Outer Fanes - two seperate times now.
It's getting to the point now where many of his resources have dried up and I really do not see much chance of survival for him unless he heads for the Inner Fanes and seeks help there.
I guess I am asking for advice. What would Hedrack do? Is he so fanatical and egotistical about his station of power that he would stay in the Outer Fanes and fight the PC's til the bitter end or would he take off to the Inner Fanes and seek the assistance there from the other priests (Doom Dreamers)?
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Andorax
Orc
(11/5/02 2:45:27 pm)
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Re: Hedrack
I can just see the off-scene meeting now:
Hedrack - "The Outer Fane has fallen. Let me in!"
Door - "No. The First has given me explicit instructions. You are not to enter here until called to it. Return, and do what you may."
If Hedrack's completely out of resources (and with a couple of memorized Lesser Planar Ally and Planar Ally spells, that can't possably be the case), then I see him as more likely to go aid in the recovery of the Nodes than be admitted into the Inner Fane as an extra encounter.
Let the PCs forget about him for a little while...and let him "err" in accidentially leaving his journal behind when he heads for the old ToEE.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
Ssendam
Pie
(11/5/02 2:56:44 pm)
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Re: Hedrack
Thanks, Andorax.
Yeah, that is what I wanted to know - would he consider heading for the Inner Fanes, and if so, would they even allow him in? Or would he be too humiliated and shamed? Hedrack strikes me as a very arrogant and proud individual. He is Chaotic Evil though, so it's sometimes hard to envision him as totally fanatical and without regard for his own life.
I mean, it is not as if Hedrack is up against a small group. This party is 6 members strong + followers (Leadership feat). Yet, he has still managed to hold his own. The first time they met him, he nearly single handedly slayed 3/4 of the group. Albeit they were not prepared for him. They left, prepared, came back and nearly killed him, but he escaped - just barely.
I think I like your idea of him heading to the recovered temple though. Thanks for the advice, bud.
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 Infiniti2000
Pie
(11/5/02 3:09:37 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Hedrack
Heading for the recovered temple is a great idea. Also, how do you feel about Hedrack enlisting "unwitting help" from the doors? He could lure the party there, encourage them to approach the doors by some method, and then attack them while they are either engaged with the doors or with the fiendish dinos.
Quite honestly, I can't remember what resources might be available, especially in your campaign where lots has happened to the Outer Fane, but there must be some way to lure them to the doors for Hedrack to get unwitting help. Illusions, teleportation type magic, or even mundane clues (his journal?).
Although life-preserving is always a good policy for any evil cleric, in this case it also makes a weird sort of sense for Hedrack to win at all costs or be annihilated in the attempt. After all, isn't annihilation the thing he worships? One final note is that it would also be VERY satisfying to your players to utterly defeat such a powerful foe and it would do wonders to their morale prior to taking on the dreaded Inner Fane. Remember that you still have the triad and various doomdreamers to continue your evil schemes. 
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ronin
Pie
(11/5/02 3:28:51 pm)
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re: Hedrack
My group encountered Hedrack 4 times before they finished him off once and for all. They absolutely hated the guy with a passion.
The first 2 times he caught them unaware (the first time they were REALLY caught off guard). The third and fourth time they specifically planned to go and kill the guy and it still took them twice to finish him off.
Andorax already mentioned the planar ally spells. The funny thing about them was Hedrack never had to re-pay the ally because they were slain (actually the ally was slain the first battle and Hedrack was slain the second battle).
Having him head to the recovered temple isnt a bad idea to be honest. If the First ever found out about it I cant imagine he'd be pleased. The consequences would be up to you as DM to decide but something should happen to the guy for abandoning his post.
Other than that he could always summon monsters (I summoned a bebelith) but most likely the party will just dispel it in some way or another. Other than the ideas already posted I cant think of any other way to use Hedrack.
Infinti also brought up a very good point. The players will get great satisfaction out of killing the guy. I know mine sure did and it did give them a lift before taking on the inner fane (in which they have had their collectives butts handed to them pretty much).
Between the two choices thus far I'd go for giving the players a short lived episode of happiness before things really start to turn ugly. Let us know what you decide.
ronin
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Ssendam
Pie
(11/5/02 3:30:25 pm)
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Re: Hedrack
Hey, Infinite
Yeah, I have thought about Hedrack just buckling down and holding the line. I imagine that right now his ego is sky high, and in his insanity, I am sure he feels close to invinceable; conisdering that he has rebuked his enemies (the party of PC's) twice now.
However, the odds are somewhat overwhelmming to him at this point. Hedrack might be crazy, but he is not stupid. I think he has about enough defenses left to give the PC's one last good fight, but it's looking grim for him.
I have to admit, my players really hate this guy about now. It would definitely be a nice morale boost for them to be able to finally slay him, but I am not going to have him just lay down and give up. They've had chances to kill him, but have come up short - bad rolls for them or good rolls for Hedrack always seem to be the deciding factor. He has proven to be a more than worthy adversary for them.
So I suppose I will give them one more shot at Hedrack. 
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Ssendam
Pie
(11/5/02 3:47:05 pm)
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Re: Hedrack
Thanks for the advice, Ronin. Need a bit of elaboration though.
So with Planar Ally, he has to actually summon the creatures during combat or once he becomes aware of the PC's or can he summon the outsider way ahead of time? I am a little confused as to how it exactly works. I mean, I read the spell and it says that you summon the demon or elemental and then bargain with it. If an agreement is reached, the summoned creature then can perform ONE task that you request of it. Hedrack: "Slay my enemies." Bebilith: "As you wish."
So can this be done ahead of time? Can he just summon a demon and then tell the demon, "Slay my enemies when they get here. Then you will be rewarded." ahead of time, like days in advance or would Hedrack's foes (the PC's) have to have already set foot into the Outter Fanes before he could summon up a fiend and then command it?
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ronin
Pie
(11/5/02 5:07:13 pm)
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re: Hedrack
Hedrack can use the planar ally spell whenever he chooses. I had him use a commune spell to get an idea when the PCs would attack him next. I then used a planar ally spell before the PCs arrived. Hedrack obviously wanted the PCs destroyed. The planar ally agreed to help in exchange for select choices of the PCs magical gear once he was successful. When the PCs arrived to fight Hedrack the planar ally was present and ready to fight.
When I refered to using a bebelith I did that with a summon monster VII (maybe VI) spell. The bebelith is one of the creatures on the level 7 (6) list. Obviously this has to be done once combat begins or shortly beforehand since it will only be around for 14 rounds.
One of the funniest parts of all this was that the PCs were afraid that Hedrack was going to gain a level just from killing them!! His tally was up to 4 PCs when they finally got the better of him. Their mistake was to chase him around and fight the battle on his terms. When they finally wizened up and forced Hedrack to chase them they beat him pretty easily.
Since your party has faced him twice and been forced to flee they will really enjoy killing him. With his resources getting smaller this should help your group out a bit and give them the edge they need to win the battle.
Good luck.
ronin
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Ssendam
Pie
(11/5/02 6:05:41 pm)
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Re: re: Hedrack
Yeah, Bebilith's are nasty. And, damn... I just realized that they're on the summoning VII list. One of the characters in my campaign is a paladin and he was not very happy about the Bebilith's ability to outright destroy armor. I have to admit myself that it is pretty harsh. Nothing more humiliating for a paladin than to be stripped of his shining armor in the middle of combat.
Thanks for your spin on the Planar Ally spell, Ronin. It's a spell that haven't used often and it is a bit open ended with exactly how it works. I have a better idea of how it works now after reading how you used it.
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Andorax
Orc
(11/5/02 7:33:23 pm)
Reply
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Re: re: Hedrack
Before you decide on all of your summonings, please look over the "Best of the Boards" under the heading of how to deal with scrying. I believe a few of my Pseudonatural creatures are listed there, and they might work very nicely for Planar Allies of Hedrack. My group is fighting the Pseudonatural Behir right now, and having serious WHAT THE HECK IS THAT reactions.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
deafdungeonmasterRIT
Pie
(11/5/02 8:24:37 pm)
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Hmm
Very interesting about Hedrack..
Why Hedrack is much more talk about than the Triad?
What is it about Hedrack that fascinates this forum more than anything else? Where the forum for the Triad? What do we need to understand about the Hedrack?
When mentions that Hedrack is fighthing the party... do you means that he fought the party alone?
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Ssendam
Pie
(11/5/02 8:36:17 pm)
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Re: Hmm
Well, Deaf. The party I am DMing right now have not reached the stage where they are facing the Triad yet. They're still doing battle with Hedrack. He's proven to be quite formidable, at least in the campaign I am running.
When it comes time for the party I am DMing to face the Triad, I am sure I will probably start a thread that pertains to that if I feel I need some advice/input.
Edited by: Ssendam at: 11/5/02 8:42:50 pm
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deafdungeonmasterRIT
Pie
(11/5/02 9:40:55 pm)
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well
I need to know how you are running Hedrack and if Hedrack is fighting alone.. if he is.. then he gotta be one tough muthafuther! Similar to Kecha from FFIII
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deafdungeonmasterRIT
Pie
(11/5/02 9:44:55 pm)
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well
I need to know how you are running Hedrack and if Hedrack is fighting alone.. if he is.. then he gotta be one tough muthafuther! Similar to Kecha from FFIII.. fighting the whole party on his own..
That something fascinates me about him..
You can always have him taking refugee in depleted temple as his hideout because players are not likely want to make any efforts to look for him there.. I mean.. they believe that the temple is wipe out or you can have Hedrack fighting his faiths one on one against rogue giant or desranth or even orge armies..
Have Hedrack to be like Sauron and recruits orcs on his side to do his bidding...
Or have him go to Hommlet and rejoin the remaining EEE cults and plan another counterattack..
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Ssendam
Pie
(11/6/02 4:12:01 am)
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Re: well
How is Hedrack able to fend off whole parties on his own? Well, it doesn't start out that way initially. He always has minions at his side or his command in the beginning of the battle, but they end up being dispatched and he is left on his own to defend himself.
The first time my group met him, he did a hell of a job on them. Nearly took the whole party down by himself. Actually it was just him and a wizard that did most of the damage, but when his wizard partner ran out of spells, Hedrack was the one that continued to bring the pain down upon the group.
How is this possible, you ask? Have you figured out yet just how powerful a high level cleric in 3rd ed is, let alone a cleric with the Madness domain? Take a look at Hedrack's DC's for his spells. That should tell you enough right there.
Forbiddance is a spell that has really fortified Hedrack so far. It is such a nasty spell, particularly the one he casts because of his insane DC bonus. Blade Barrier is another spell I've had him use to protect himself, and it has proved effective.
a Destruction spell, at a DC of 26 Fort for an arcane caster or a rogue is no piece of cake, let me tell you. Better have that Deathward up or it's "bye-bye".
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Infiniti2000
Pie
(11/6/02 6:49:08 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
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More Ideas
Here's a couple of other ideas I thought of:
(1) Do you have any campaign ideas beyond RttToEE? Perhaps Hedrack is meant to be the ONE cleric to escape destruction at the hands of the PC's so that he can continue the work in the name of Big T. I know, YAToEE (yet another temple of elemental evil). But, maybe he will directly call out Big T this time (not elemental evil). No more hiding.
(2) Have Hedrack go to the town and grab 20 or so innocents. Threaten them somehow such that the party will have to go through the innocents to get to Hedrack. Sure, they can kill or defeat Hedrack, but it will be at a high cost of 20 commoner's lives. Perhaps the end justifies the means.
Deaf, keep in mind that Hedrack actually helps the PC's defeat the Triad and the other doomdreamers by preparing them for how to fight high level clerics in the service of Big T. Chances are that the party will have an easier time against the Triad individually (though not the Inner Fane as a whole) than against Hedrack. As ronin said, the party will wise up and learn better tactics.
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Siobharek 
Orc
(11/6/02 6:52:53 am)
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Re: More Ideas
YAToEE... damn that's funny.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
chefhermes
Pie
(11/6/02 6:47:53 pm)
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Re: More Ideas
IMC the party killed Hedrack the first time they met him... by getting very very lucky. H showed up at the tail end of another battle, with 4 elementals. The party was down to their last few spells, and boy is Forbiddance a great spell! It let Hedrack get off a bunch of his spells, and when he got low on hp, let him heal himself. He was getting peppered with a bunch of arrows, so he kept having to heal himself. Then he popped around the corner, to heal again, maybe to run away to fight again, and the cleric of the party dropped a blade barrier down on top of him. He made his save, with just a few hp to spare. Then they dropped a wall of fire beside the blade barrier, and he made his save again. Down to his last 3 hp, he went out of sight around the corner to heal. The mage (the only one to make his Forbiddance save) ran over, grabbed the Fighter/Rogue and dimension doored around the corner. Two arrows later (the first one missed) Hedrack was down. I fully expected him to get away, (maybe even hoped he would get away) but it was such a well-fought fight that I couldn't bring myself to fudge his hit points up 2 so that he could live and word of recall away.
Hermes
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JLXC
Pie
(11/6/02 11:18:03 pm)
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Re: More Ideas
Well since the party has destroyed the CRM and the Inner Fane is all but a memory..... Hedrack uses the Fire Altar in the CRM (The party never destroyed it) to make a Staff of Summon Monster 7. He's used 20 charges, and the party mowed through them all, but it weakened them enough for them to be impressed and a bit scared. What a titanic battle with a new beastie or group of beasties coming every round!
He plans on using the altar to make Items to better defend himself. My Hedrack wont face the party directly again. They are too much and the module says Hedrack will NEVER put himself in mortal danger if he can avoid it.
JMHO.
Do not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons,
for you are Crunchy & good with Ketchup
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/6/02 11:38:26 pm)
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Re: More Ideas
Remember that unless your campaign says otherwise, the intent of the altar is that it can only be used once per week.
But then again, most parties seem to take a week to get back on their feet after a good fight. 
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Ssendam
Pie
(11/7/02 12:14:30 am)
Reply
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Re: More Ideas
"My Hedrack wont face the party directly again. They are too much and the module says Hedrack will NEVER put himself in mortal danger if he can avoid it."
Well, that's not exactly what is written in regards to Hedrack's tactics. It says that he never fights to the death and never puts himself in a situation where he is at serious risk. There are facts that need to be weighed while thinking about Hedrack and roleplaying him as he is. Remember, Hedrack is not exactly a rational man, he is insane. He also believes himself to be more than just some run of the mill cleric in the service of his god.
If Hedrack is as powerful and righteous as he deems himself to be, then how is he to answer to his superiors when he they question him as to why he failed? IMO, Hedrack, with his current station of power, is not someone to wuss out so readily and easily. Hedrack, if played correctly, can be devestating. If you play him soft and more self preserving then you may as well give the Outter Fanes to your players.
IMO, Hedrack has such an advantage over the PC's when they set foot into the Outter Fanes that it is hard for me to believe that a group could go in the first time and defeat him. It takes an extreme amount of luck. If you play Hedrack smart and his lackeys smart, there should be no reason for him to be that much at a "serious risk" - unless the party you are running enetered the Outter Fanes at like 14th level
Edited by: Ssendam at: 11/7/02 12:17:39 am
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