|
Author
|
Comment
|
inthane chan
Pie
(11/8/02 9:55:13 am)
Reply
|
Am I about to murder my players?
The setup:
6 characters, all 4th level, w/4th level equipment. Two of them have necklaces of fireballs. (the least valuable type.) One has a wand of Cure Light Wounds. They are all built on 32 points. This is supposed to be a high casualty-rate game.
Characters are as follows:
1/2 Orc Bbn1/Clr3
Human Pal4
1/2 Elf Rgr1/Sorc3
Elven Rgr4
Halfling Rog3/Wiz1
Dwarf Bbn1/Ftr3
They dealt with The Big U (He flew off w/20hp, to make a reappearance at the Abandoned Temple, the grey ooze (only got one non-magical tower shield, damn...) and the highest hit point total is in the mid 20s right now. Basically, the big hitters are hurting, but the second-line folk are in good shape.
They're spending the night in the upper right hand room in the moathouse, and leaving their horses in the entry room. Taking a cue from a post on this board, I rolled 2d12 to determine how long before they send someone up to investigate, and they'll be attacked right around midnight by a band of gnolls. The two folk on watch are the Paladin and the Dwarf, and everybody else except for the 1/2 orc can sleep in their armor without penalty.
I'm thinking about sending the entire pack of gnolls (10, and the ranger) at them in the middle of the night, packing in with the horses (so they can't use fireballs) and trying to storm them in the room. Of course, since they've got a chokepoint, they won't be able to swarm them - but they'll be trying to bullrush their way in. Party won't have any spells remaining at that point of any note. I've been giving +2 att/damage to everything to up the difficulty to compensate for the 32 point buy.
Any thoughts? Am I about to TPK?
|
Dave White
Pie
(11/8/02 10:42:02 am)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
Possibly - though in this case I imagine the cultists would be more interested in capturing the party to find out where they came from and who sent them. Don't hesitate to kill characters - but give them plenty of RP opportunities to back out of a potentially lethal fight.
I also wouldn't give everything the blanket +2 to hit/damage.
|
Trithereon
Pie
(11/8/02 10:47:57 am)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
Go right ahead and try it. My guess is that your players will defeat the gnolls with perhaps a casualty (or two) if they are unlucky. You expect a high casaulty rate, so don't hold back.
They have a wand of Cure Light Wounds, so there's no excuse (unless its used up) for anyone to be wounded. A charged wand in the hand of a dead man is useless. There's enough evidence in the courtyard that there's more at the moathouse than just a dragon. If they didn't set camp suspecting trouble then they were unwise and might deserve a little "wake up call".
|
Thrommel
The DM
(11/8/02 10:51:06 am)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
I'd change one thing: the gnolls send up a lone scout first.
It seems doubtful in my mind that Garrik is going to send the bulk of his forces up to check and see if Utreshimon is still there. One blast of lightning breath and he'd have no troops left.
He's going to send one of his lackeys up to scope it out.
So give those boys a Spot check to see the wide, blinking eyes of that lone, unlucky gnoll who drew the short straw. Or give them a Listen check to hear the sigh of relief as he slinks back down the creaky stairs.
It seems a little heavy handed for the entire patrol to just appear out of the basement.
And for that matter, how do the gnolls know the party is hostile? Maybe the party was sent in to rescue the cultists.
I'd suggest a little more scouting and observation. If the party somehow indicates they're not with the cult, then send the full-blown patrol after them - this is the chance for the second-string PC's to shine.
But if the party appears friendly or neutral, then Garrik is likely going to play a delaying strategy and set up some sort of welcome in the basement with an ambush prepared nearby just in case.
And I would probably ditch that +2 unnamed bonus. I think there are plenty of ways to challenge the group just using tactics.
-Thrommel, head coach of the B-squad (Bards, Barbarians, and Blackguards.)
|
Trithereon
Pie
(11/8/02 11:03:52 am)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
Well said Thrommel, I agree with that sentiment from a pure logicistics arguement. I also agree that you should ditch the mysterious +2 to hit mechanic. Thrommel is right in that tactics can make up for that.
If you must use a game mechanic to even the playing field, I'd suggest increased hit points. Your players were built tough and there are six of them, so build your monsters tough and give them closer to 80-100% of maximum hit points. I'd use this mechanic on the leaders, more so then the minions. Its amazing how a couple extra rounds from the leaders can make encounters seem tougher - without giving out extra XP.
|
inthane chan
Pie
(11/8/02 11:16:46 am)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
Yeah, was going to do the "1 scout" thing first - sending up the Ranger, then having him sneak back down, report in, and lead the squad up. They'll spill into the central room, figure out quickly that the party isn't the rescue squad (no insignia, no cart, the guy from the Mill isn't there, etc.), and by that time the party should have been alerted due to the horses acting skittish, etc.
I'll try boosting HP for this battle, which I actually don't expect to be all that hard, due to the chokepoint issue, but hopefully I'll get a couple good whacks in...
<a href=http://cryptome.org/ed-curry.htm>Remember Ed Curry!<a> |
Siobharek 
Orc
(11/8/02 1:35:28 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
One thing: You mention that the gnolls will get in among the horses to prevent the use of fireballs. How do they know that the party has the ability to lob fireballs?
Oh, and while the other posters have had the decendy not to mention this, I'm of a lower breed: Don't murder your players. It's illegal (in most countries/states of the US), most prisons won't let you play D&D, and even if you don't get caught you're faced with the hassle of assembling a new group.
<ducks>
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
inthane chan
Pie
(11/8/02 2:55:01 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
/me smacks Siobharek... :D
Actually, they don't know, and their tactics won't reflect that - but I imagine that, given their horses are out there, that the party (especially the Paladin) won't want to use their ammo that way. An unintended benefit, though if they can't force their way in, they might threaten to kill the horses...
Yeah, if the party bottlenecks the gnolls before they get TO the horses, then I can see the party pretty much demolish what's left of the moathouse. :P The rogue already blew up the SW tower while trying to "dethrone" U...
<a href=http://cryptome.org/ed-curry.htm>Remember Ed Curry!<a> |
morbiczer
Pie
(11/8/02 4:26:57 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
1. I wouldn't send up the ranger (Garrik). He is the boss of all the gnolls and he should know that if the dragon is still up there, than anyone who goes up has a very slim chance to survive. He would send up an underling. Garrik would probably go up, if the clerics forced him, but why would they do that?
2. The main question is whether the gnolls in the Moathouse don't know already, that the dragon is dead. Let's assume that the fight took place in the courtyard so that the gnolls in room 18 didn't hear that. But afterwards your players entered the Moathouse, walked around in heavy armor, talked, fought the ooze (okay that's quite far from room 6), settled down for the night and even brought their horses in to the Great Hall! That surely made a lot of noise.
The gnolls in room 18 should have heard that something has changed up there. We don't know from the module how many steps there are between room 6 and room 18 (it "says": unknown number of steps + 20 steps). Let's assume 40 steps. So I would say that distance is not more than 30 meters. There is no door. I would rule that the gnolls in 18 have heard all the movement going on about in the upper level. They had a lot of time to take 20. (I guess your players didn't make any precautions not to be heard. After all they took they horses into the building.)
So IMC the gnolls and the clerics would be warned that something strange is going on and that the dragon is (most likely) gone. I would say that at least the clerics could have guessed that the new people aren't friends since they didn't go down trying to contact their buddies. This means that they would be warned and prepared. Although this could explain an assault en masse against the sleeping party and this is what you seem to want after all, isn't it?
|
Thrommel
The DM
(11/8/02 6:03:44 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
I thought about point 1 that morbiczer brought up, but then I noticed that in the description of Garrik it says he is completely fearless and would take on the entire party himself if need be.
So I think you could make the call either way.
It might be interesting if he called for volunteers and when none were forthcoming he'd say "Okay you pansies! I'll go myself!" and then marches off down the hall, drill-sergeant style.
Too bad some of the best scenes happen off-stage.
-Thrommel, who's lurking in the orchestra pit.
|
Abelard
Orc
(11/8/02 7:25:08 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
Garrik also would probably make the best scout - doesn't he have a bit of Hide and Move Silently skill? And doesn't he have a potion of Hiding or a potion of Sneaking? It's been a while since I ran the moathouse, but I seem to recall that.
|
morbiczer
Pie
(11/9/02 3:25:57 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
Garrik has no potion of hiding or sneaking and also no ranks in Move Silently or Hide.
Since last night I have checked out the map (should have done it at the beggining, I know) and now I see that there is a room between the Grand Hall and the stairs leading down (room 13). This would make it more difficult for the gnolls to hear what is going on upstairs.
|
benhamtroll
Pie
(11/13/02 1:10:33 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
I had another question on this, since it is now very relevant for my players.
The stairs from the main level of the moathouse descend to the north. Since there is a landing, does that mean that the stairs into room 18 descend to the south?
"Just because it's weird doesn't make it art."
|
morbiczer
Pie
(11/13/02 3:20:15 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Am I about to murder my players?
"Since there is a landing, does that mean that the stairs into room 18 descend to the south? "
Seems so.
|
Okay -- Your Turn
Email This To a Friend
Topic Commands