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Realgr27
Pie
(11/18/02 7:26:22 am)
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Wealth , price lists , goods and other questions
Hi to everybody .
Nothing new , simply some questions that needs answers ...
Let's begin :
1) Because my Characters are new , with what wealth in gold they have to start the adventure ? ( 4L char. Barbarian , Ranger , Fighter , Cleric , Wizard )
2 ) Do you use the price list ( for weapons, armor , goods ...)
exactly as there are in the PHB and the RttToEE ?
3) the players can buy anything that they want with no quantity limits ? For example : if a Fighter want to spend all his gold to buy potions or scrolls of cure critical wounds and it can afford more than 20 , I have to allow that ?
4) Do you give to the players exactly what they find in the adventure ? More ? Less ?
If they kill an NPC or a Monster they can retrieve his belongings ? ( Armor , weapon , magic items , gold ...)
5) Do you keep the NPC's and Monster's statistics as there are in the adventure or you change that ( HP , AC , Base Attack Bonus ...) ?
6) A Barbarian can get the Armor Proficiency ( Heavy ) Feat ?
Any Char. can get it even a Wizard ?
7) What good there is to a Char. with a DEX +4 if get a Full Plate Mail , when he has allready a Chain Shirt ?
 The Mage Armor spell can cast only uppon a Wizard or on any Char . ?
9) I don't understand ( because I don't know English very well ) that it is writ in the PHB for the Armor Bonus and it's effect with the Mage Armor Spell : " ... This bonus is an armor Bonus , so it does not stack with other effect that increase your armor bonus , such as the Mage Armor spell or Bracers of Armor . " Can you make it more clearly to Me ? Maybe with an example .
This is how I use the Mage Armor : A Fighter with Chain Shirt ( +4 armor bonus ) , large shield ( +2 armor bonus ) , DEX +3 has an AC=19 , when a Wizard cast on him a Mage Armor Spell he has an AC=23 .
Is it right the result or I'm wrong ?
10) In that Char . ( AC=23 ) a Cleric 5L who try to achieve on him a touch spell , have to roll a 17 or more on a D20 ?
That's all for this time I hope that not bother you with all those beginner's questions .
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smetzger
Pie
(11/18/02 7:52:43 am)
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Re: Wealth , price lists , goods and other questions
Like named bonuses do not stack. A Mage Armor spell provides a +4 armor bonus, therefore it does not combine with other armors. So a Chain Shirt and Mage Armor still only gives you a +4 to your AC.
In the DMG there is an amount of gold that PCs should have at appropriate levels. Use this for your 4th level PCs. Make sure you use the PC one and not the NPC one.
People may suggest all sorts of complicated ways for determining what kinds of magic items your PCs start out with. I have found that its simplest to just let them have the appropriate amount of gold and then let them buy pretty much what they want, with the restriction that no one item can cost more than 1/2 their total amount of gold.
I use the price lists as written in RttToEE and PHB.
Keep the monster stats as written, its alot easier that way. You'll have enough work to do without changing stuff. There is alot to do in the CRM, when you need to repopulate.
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Andorax
Orc
(11/18/02 8:26:14 am)
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Re: Wealth , price lists , goods and other questions
1-3) Starting equipment for non-1st level PCs.
First of all, if it suits your playing style, you can avoid this problem altogether by not starting them at 4th level. Start them at 1st and run a series of adventures leading up to Hommlet, planning it so they get 4th level about when they get into town.
No? Ok, then personal preference rules here. The easiest way is to just give them the 4th level PC's starting gold, as per the DMG chart, and turn them loose to spend it on whatever they like. DO read over the list of things they buy, and DO feel perfectly free to tell them no if you feel something is out of line, out of place, or otherwise just plain wrong. You don't HAVE to accept or allow anything as DM...it's up to you.
Alternately, you can do a more complicated method of item generation. Put together a list of adventures they would have completed if they had actually played from 1st to 4th, and present the party with that list. It should be more than the baseline funds they would otherwise have, since they lose the ability to choose what they want...but it would present a more "realistic" sense of what a group of four PCs would have accumulated by now.
4) They find plenty. And no, this isn't Diablo II, where creatures cough up random equipment. If the encounter says "4 1st level Warriors with Masterwork Bastard Swords and Masterwork Banded Mail" then, when everything's said and done, the PCs have four suits of Masterwork Banded Mail and four Masterwork Bastard Swords in their posession when they're done slaying the badguys.
5) I would suggest leaving the encounters as-is, save for making the errata/faq corrections listed in the sticky threads at the top of this forum. If you try to improve them to keep up, you'll wind up with XP inflation, which is messy.
6) Yes, anyone can take the Armor Proficiency (Heavy) feat, although it requires Armor Proficiency (Medium) as a pre-requisite. Yes, a 3rd level human wizard could take Armor (Light), Armor (Medium) (at 1st) and Armor (Heavy) at 3rd. However, remember that Arcane spellcasters (bards, wizards, sorcerors) are subject to a % chance of their spells not working when they cast in armor. If they cast spells with a Somatic component (Look under the spell's stat block...components V,S,M...S is Somatic), they have to roll over a certain % value for the armor, which is on the armor chart. If they don't roll over that %, the spell fails and is wasted.
7) Full Plate Mail protects you even when you don't get your Dex bonus to AC (flat-footed at the beginning of combat, held, paralyzed, grappled). However, generally speaking, it's the PCs with low dexterities who go in for the heavy armors.
8-9) Cast on any character. However, it is an Armor bonus, and thus won't stack with actual Armor, or with a Shield. A mage with Mage Armor is a Monk's best friend.
Specifically, the stacking rules work like this.
With only a few exceptions, you can't get two bonuses of the same type. If two bonuses provide the same type of benefit, you only use the better of the two.
For example, a PC couldn't wear a Chain Shirt (Armor bonus of +4) under a suit of Full Plate Armor (Armor bonus of +8) and get a +12. They're the same "type" of bonus (Armor), and thus only the better one would apply.
A dexterous fighter would have a Dexterity bonus to AC. Different type of bonus (Dex, not Armor).
A Shield also provides an "Armor" bonus, but is an exception to the rule...A Shield will always combine with an actual suit of armor, but never with any other type of Armor bonus (such as Mage Armor, or Bracers of Armor).
If the fighter also had the Dodge feat, he would get a further +1 to his AC as a "Dodge" bonus. Different type of bonus, different benefit.
If he had an Amulet of Natural Armor +2, he'd have a +2 "Natural Armor" bonus.
If he had a Ring of Protection +2, he'd have a +2 "Deflection" bonus.
If he had a luckstone, he'd have a +1 "Luck" bonus.
Mage Armor is an "Armor" bonus, so it won't stack with anything else (Armor, shield, bracers of armor) that provides an "armor" bonus.
Your fighter with a Chain Shirt (+4 Armor), a Large Shield (+2 Armor, special), and a 16 Dex (+3 Dexterity) would have a 19 AC (10 + 4 + 2 + 3).
As for Touch ACs, you only get your "Ds"...Dexterity, Dodge and Deflection...for your "touch" armor class. Natural Armor, Armor, Shields, etc...none of these help you. Your fighter would only have an AC of 13: 10 + 3 (Dex)
Also, if the fighter were "flat-footed", he would not gain a Dex bonus (he doesn't know the blow is coming, and can't dodge it). He's have a 16 AC (10 + 4 + 2).
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
bouncingboy24
Pie
(11/18/02 8:31:12 am)
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Re: Wealth , price lists , goods and other questions
That'a a lot of questions so let's begin:
1) Page 43 in DMG has a table for starting equipment for PC's above 1st level. 4th level PC's should start with 5,400 GP. I ruled that my players had to spend 25% on mundane items, 65% on magic items, and keep the other 10% in treasure. There is also another table in DMG, page 58, for NPC gear value depening on their level.
2) I used the price lists in the PHB and DMG for items bought before the game. Afterwards, I slightly modified some of the prices +10%/-10% for the purpose of realism explaining it as taxes, low demand, etc.
3) That never came up but I don't see why not. Don't forget that scrolls can only be used by spellcasters and if your PC wants to waste his money buying many Cure Light Wound potions instead of a wand then let him. You could always impose some sort of time restriction for some items, however. Perhaps the merchant still has 6 scrolls left, but he'll have to wait a few weks for the rest of the order to come in.
4) RttToEE is written and balanced in such a way that fooling around with the XP and treasure given will probably give you headaches. However, as I have recently begun this campaign, I am unsure about the treasure given out. Reading through the book, I find it unfortunate that the best my PC's can hope for is a +2 weapon unless they buy one. Maybe I missed some.
I might change this, such as making the Elemental swords +3, but I'll probably leave it as is.
5) The only modifications I made was to add a few psionic encounters as one of my PC's is a psion. I don't recommend making the encounters harder because that can really unbalance it. It's hard enough already. If your PC's are the type to complain every time one of them is killed, you might want to make some encounters easier. in the beginning watch out for Utreshimon, Chatrilon, Wat, the Dire Ape, and the Howler. If your PC's aren't careful, one of them might get wasted. Warn them that there are going to be casualties and prepare a back-up character.
6) Anyone can wear armour in 3rd Edition. There are penalties however. A barbarian in heavy armour cannot use his fast movement, and ranger cannot fight with 2 weapons, and arcane spellcasters have big penalties for spells. Keep in mind that Medium Armour Proficiency is a prerequisite for Heavy Armour and Light Armour is the same for Medium.
7) Dexterity +4 character with chain shirt has AC 18 ( 14 touch, 14 flat-footed). Same character with full plate has AC 19 (11 touch, 18 flat-footed).
8) Mage Armour works on every character. However, the +4 bonus does not stack with the normal AC bonus if wearing armour. Mage Armour works great on Spellcasters and Monks.
9) The result is wrong. The only bonuses that add to each other in 3rd Edition are armour + shield, dodge bonuses, synergy bonuses, and a few other exceptions. As for Armour Class, you have the standard modifiers: Armour, Shield, Dexterity, Size, Deflection, and Natural Armour.
A PC with a Chain Shirt and Bracers of Armour +2 still has an AC of 14 because both are armour bonuses.
A PC with a Chain Shirt and a Ring of Protection +3 has an AC of 17 (+4 Armour & +3 Deflection).
Your fighter should have an AC of 19. He can improve it by reducing his size, finding a Ring of Protection (deflection bonus), getting an Amulet of Natural Armour, or improving armour or dexterity.
10) When figuring out touch attacks, you ignore Armour, Shield, and Natural Armour bonuses. In your example, the AC to hit the fighter would be 13 (10 + 3 for dex).
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Zenon
Pie
(11/18/02 8:43:17 am)
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Re: Wealth , price lists , goods and other questions
Quote:
6) A Barbarian can get the Armor Proficiency ( Heavy ) Feat ?
Any Char. can get it even a Wizard ?
Yes, the Barbarian could take this as a bonus feat at 3rd, 6th, 8th, etc. level. However, remember his +10' movement is only in med. armor or lighter.
Quote:
7) What good there is to a Char. with a DEX +4 if get a Full Plate Mail , when he has allready a Chain Shirt ?
Well, let's look:
10 + Chain Shirt (+4 AC) + Dex +4 = AC 18
10 + Full Plate (+8 AC) + Max Dex Mod (+1) = AC 19
Just looking at basics, not much. It is more effecient for high dex PC to wear lighter armor to gain the full benefit of their Dex mod. Things change if the armor is made out of something like Mithril which increases the Max Dex modifier allowed by 2(I think):
10+Mithril Chain Shirt (+4 AC) + Max Dex +6 (Dex +4) = AC 18
10+Mithril Full Plate(+8 AC) + Max Dex Modifier +3(+3) = AC 21
Things start changing more as magic is added.
Quote:
10) In that Char . ( AC=23 ) a Cleric 5L who try to achieve on him a touch spell , have to roll a 17 or more on a D20 ?
Quote:
This is how I use the Mage Armor : A Fighter with Chain Shirt ( +4 armor bonus ) , large shield ( +2 armor bonus ) , DEX +3 has an AC=19 , when a Wizard cast on him a Mage Armor Spell he has an AC=23 .
Like smetzger said, the Mage Armor spell will not stack with the armor bonus, so he is only AC 19.
Here is where things get tricky:
If he does not have the spell cast on him, he is AC 19 normally, and AC 13 for a touch attack (10+3 Dex= 13). Armor and shield do not count towards touch AC.
If he does have the spell cast on him, his normal AC is still only 19 (no stacking). But, his touch AC is 17 (10+3 Dex+4 Mage Armor=17). Mage Armor counts towards touch attacks.
Does this help?
Edited by: Zenon at: 11/18/02 8:44:26 am
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Taxman66
Pie
(11/18/02 10:54:42 am)
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+3 weapons
About the +3 weapons. It only takes a 9th level caster to make them, even if the weapon has additional enhancements. Additionally, you don't necessarily have to buy them (or comission their making) outright. It is possible to upgrade the weapons you already have. One benefit of doing this is that it takes less time than making a new one from scratch.
If the PCs have a character who has taken the Craft arms and armor feat they have plenty of opportunity to solve the 'no +3 weapons' problem on their own.
Taxman
"It takes an uncommon mind to think of these things, Hobbes." - Calvin
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 Infiniti2000
Pie
(11/18/02 11:29:19 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Wealth , price lists , goods and other questions
Zenon: "Mage Armor counts towards touch attacks."
Mage Armor does not count towards general touch attacks. It counts towards incorporeal touch attacks, but not touch attacks in general (such as grappling, rays, touch spells). Did you get this from a FAQ or errata somewhere?
SRD:
Quote:
An invisible but tangible field of force surrounds the subject of mage armor, providing a +4 armor bonus to AC. Unlike mundane armor, mage armor entails no armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, or speed reduction. Since mage armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can’t bypass it the way they do normal armor.
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Zenon
Pie
(11/18/02 12:16:57 pm)
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Re: Wealth , price lists , goods and other questions
Quote:
Mage Armor does not count towards general touch attacks. It counts towards incorporeal touch attacks, but not touch attacks in general (such as grappling, rays, touch spells).
I stand corrected. I was thinking about the Spectres my players ran into last time, and that the Mage Armor counted against the incorporeal touch attack. My bad.
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Realgr27
Pie
(11/18/02 2:07:22 pm)
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Re: Wealth , price lists , goods and other questions
Thank you all for your assistance , you are a great help to Me .
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Siobharek 
Orc
(11/19/02 1:50:39 am)
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Re: Wealth , price lists , goods and other questions
Please note that the table bouncingboy refers to applies to NPCs, not PCs. The PC Wealth by level table is later in the DMG (in the Campaigns chapter, I think - I don't have my book with me to work).
Siobharek
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Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
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