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PrinceLorrin
Pie
(11/27/02 12:44:08 am)
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Scrying the Outer Fane
Mauratis, the necromancer PC in my campaign has decided to spend the next two weeks using Clairvoyence to map out the entrances to the outer fanes.
Unfortunaly during one of his 'looks' he managed to get Hedrack (who made his opposed check and new he was being watched).
What defence does the outer fane have against this kind of treatment ? and how would Hedrack react ? (can you for instance Greater Scry "the person who was looking at me").
Thanks
-Lorrin
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Siobharek 
Orc
(11/27/02 12:58:20 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
Well, I suppose Hedrack could do a "20 Questions" with a Commune. That would get him gender, race, and possibly class. It might also make him send the stalkers to retrieve the body of one of the defenders for a session of Speak with the Dead.
In short, he will get the identity of the scryer. Or get so much that he will be able to get a bead on him with Greater Scry.
Have you got Book of Eldritch Might 3? There's quite a bit of scrying material there (spells and such).
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Azalnubizar 
Pie
(11/27/02 1:19:16 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
It's been quite a while, since I played the temple, so I'm a bit unsure of the power of hedrack there.
I think Siobherak is right. He will get the identity of the necromancer if he really puts the efford into it. And I think he will try, since I would want to know, who is scrying me if I where Hedrack!
I think, after I found out enough, to scry them myself, I'd start doing so. The group will probably get pretty nervous after 2 nights of being scryed.
Then, once I'm sure this group is a threat to the fane (see description in the adventure) I'd send out the assassines.
What you should keep in mind is that Hedrack probably would scry them once in a while. Therefore he will know immediatly, once they seem to threat the fane. Furthermore he might have seen some stuff that he will tell the assassines - or he might even decide, that the assassines are not enough, or might provide them with some minor magic defense. For example, if he sees them, using fire magic a lot, he might provide them with a potion of fire resistance. Or if he sees them relying on the "Alarm" spell a lot, he will tell them, so they'd be aware of it (using detect magic, to locate it, maybe getting a scroll of dispel from Hedrack to disable it or maybe even getting the password from Hedrack through scrying or through commune...)
just some thoughts
Azal
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/27/02 1:45:55 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
One thing, though. IIRC, Varachan has a crystal ball. That means that Hedrack will probably entrust him with some of the surveillance. And that means that you only have to give the PCs as much heat as you want to. For instance, if teh group has 20 hit points between them, Varachan could conveniently "forget" to mention that to Hedrack.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
PrinceLorrin
Pie
(11/27/02 4:32:24 am)
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Scrying the Outer Fane
Okay...thats what i thought..
My lovely PC's thought they'd like to know more...so they scry him a couple of more times...
two...he's busy in his private chambers with two young girls...scry sensor appears...he see's it (not happy)
three....he's eating dinner....again scryed (he has a good idea its the same person)...
Now...does he send the assassins ? OR does he conjure a lesser planar ally (only lvl 4 spell)..and send it after them [since they are miles outside the mines].
-Lorrin
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/27/02 4:42:24 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
Hedrack is patient and careful. I'd think that he would gather quite a bit of info in order to make his response as efficient as possible.
Depending on how much of a bother the PCs have been, a scroll of Greater Dispelling might be in order. Give that to one of the assassins, find the party (holed up in their rope trick), and dispel the hole. Maybe death attack the barbarian sleeping outside the hole. Then run and let the Lesser Planar Ally do the fighting (maybe with a posse of escaped CRM denizens).
If you have the Monster Manual 2, there are some pretty nasty demons there that would work quite well with a LPA.
Or he may put the Spider Eater Riders on alert and have them watch for the PCs.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
DM Armand
Pie
(11/27/02 4:52:44 am)
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Scrying the Outer Fane
I had an non-scrying zone over all the outer and inner fane so they couldn´t use scrying 
But after they began to be a threat (they had a bag of holding with 2 lesser keys of earth, 2 lesser keys of air and all the stuff from the moathouse and some more) I sent an assassin and 2 invisible stalkers and stole it!!!
I had the assassin with a bracking stick (word of recall) and he grapped the bag and puff *** left the invisible stalkers behind as an devirgion.
No keys on outer fane
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/27/02 4:57:01 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
Yeah, well... By doing that, you take abilities away from your party and basically screws any player who's allocated points in scrying.
Personally, I prefer letting the PCs use their abilities and then making a forceful response that'll make them wish they hadn't used them.
Also, by taking away all their keys, you force them to do more bashing in the CRM. But hey, to each his own
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Azalnubizar
Pie
(11/27/02 5:27:21 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
First - as far as I know, Hedrack knows a dispel magic and therefore would dispel the scrying sensor immediatly.
Second - I think Hedrack would get hands on a "Detect Scrying" Spell (for example one of the drow, through the altar or whatsoever...). So next time, he will know how the scryer looks like, as well as distance & location.
He might just cast several summon monster spells (he will be prepared, therefore they probably will be his highest) and have them teleported there (through the drow, for example?)
You could also have him ask the Gelugon to summon another one, teleport in, give them fireballs/walls and teleport out again (leaving the summoned one there)...
there are so many ways...
Azal
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DM Armand
Pie
(11/27/02 5:38:34 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
Yes but some places are just out of your reach!!!
Plus, if you were Hedrack wouldn´t you protect your self from scrying ???
From my point of view I thought this was a secret so they wouldn´t want wizards to just accidently scry them so they made preparations, right???
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/27/02 5:49:43 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
As I said, to each his own. But the Fanes are not really the be-all and end-all of the adventure - the old Temple is - and the PCs will need to get into the Fanes in order to find out what's going on.
And AFAIK you can't "accidentally" scry someone. Either you know about someone and you can scry them, or you don't, and you can't.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
gmk6135
Pie
(11/27/02 6:20:32 am)
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Scry or Clairvoyance?
>And AFAIK you can't "accidentally" scry someone. Either
>you know about someone and you can scry them, or you
>don't, and you can't.
If you look back at the first post in the thread he was using Clairvoyance instead of scry, so he could just scan through the halls of the outer fane (assuming it's in range). And about Hedrack, I'm not sure that you can detect a clairvoyance in the same way as a scry. Should he have noticed?
gmk
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smetzger
Pie
(11/27/02 6:22:30 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
I agree with Siobharek, let the scrying commence; to prevent it would nerf valid abilities of the PCs. Besides, this lets you do more than just have a hack fest.
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/27/02 6:24:08 am)
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Re: Scry or Clairvoyance?
No, that's just fine. My point referred to the idea that some wizard without any prior knowledge of Mt. Stalagos would somehow stumble across the area.
Muratis and his gang knows of the Fanes, they just don't know what's in it. With scrying they get a chance at casing the joint, and they'll need that knowledge. The Outer Fane is 100% coordinated, which will be a rude awakening - or it will be at least to my group of players.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. Edited by: Siobharek at: 11/27/02 6:36:45 am
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madfox
Orc
(11/27/02 6:52:41 am)
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Re: Scry or Clairvoyance?
How did Hedrack protect the Fane against scrying? I am asking this, because I never mind giving the NPCs all kinds of boosts to help them against the PCs. I do mind to give them unfair advantages.
As for using clauraudiance/clairvoyance to explore the Outer Fanes. That sounds like a lot of castings to me. You cannot move the sensor, so each time you cast it, you can move it to the new location as long as that new location is within sight of the old location. If there are no light sources at the area scaned, that would mean at most a 10 ft move if I remember correctly.
Anyway, people never accidently scry upon an area or person. So if Hedrack is being spied upon, his first act would indeed be to find out who is doing the scrying. He then would either try to kill the scryer or if in a more devious mood provide false information to the scryer. Of course, the last only works if the scryer is not aware of the fact that Hedrack knows about the scryer. It can be highly effective though.
"What do you mean the dragon is red? When we looked at it through our scrying mirror it was blue?!"
Edited by: madfox at: 11/27/02 6:53:38 am
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DM Armand
Pie
(11/27/02 7:25:08 am)
Reply
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
by "accidently" I was talking about......
"Unfortunaly during one of his 'looks' he managed to get Hedrack"
but a non-scrying zone would prevent that!
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/27/02 7:28:51 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
Sorry, I misunderstood you then.
But I still don't see what's so terrible about the PCs seeing Hedrack, getting a feel for the place, and using their powers. By the time they can scry and/or use clairvoyance, they're pretty close to being able to survive the Fanes, so they'll be going there anyway.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Grumgarr
Pie
(11/27/02 7:28:58 am)
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Scrying the Outer Fane
"As for using clauraudiance/clairvoyance to explore the Outer Fanes. That sounds like a lot of castings to me.You cannot move the sensor, so each time you cast it, you can move it to the new location as long as that new location is within sight of the old location. If there are no light sources at the area scaned, that would mean at most a 10 ft move if I remember correctly."
Madfox, the Outer Fane, unlike the CRM, is lit by everburning torchlight throughout (can't give you a page ref - think it's in the Chapter intro) - there are no handy windows out to daylight though so the only light in the Fane comes from the torches. Of course the temple areas are dark (magical darkness in some areas, just plain old darkness in others) but most of the Outer Fane is well lit - line of sight goes on and on...
Of course, LOTS of the inhabitants have a fair chance to spot a sensor and when they do, Hedrack will hear of it and react accordingly...to warm up I like the idea of Dirass with Detect Scrying (great ranks in scry too), followed by a nightly Nightmare spell for the scryer.
My PCs were freaked when they saw how big it was (there's a loooong view north of the Fire Door, all the way to Varachan and Ukemil's chambers) - the number of side passages and doors gave them a good dose of the 'reinforcements everywhere' willies.
Grumgarr
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Siobharek
Orc
(11/27/02 7:33:01 am)
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Re: Scrying the Outer Fane
My group's one water temple battle away from going towards the Fane. I can hardly wait... And Grumgarr, you may just about have rekindled my warm, fuzzy feeling about this. Thanks
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Thrommel
The DM
(11/27/02 7:35:10 am)
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Re: Scry or Clairvoyance?
To address the scrying/non-scrying issue -- in the module as written, the Outer Fane is wide open to scrying. The Inner Fane, however, is somewhat protected.
As noted on page 128, the walls and floor of the tower have SR 30 which applies to attempts to bypass the walls using teleport, scrying, etc.
I think the topic of scrying has been pretty well handled in the BoB. (Especially Andorax's Panic Room-inspired bit.)
-Thrommel, who's personally inspired by Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
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Andorax
Orc
(11/27/02 8:32:31 am)
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Re: Scry or Clairvoyance?
Well, while we're here, I thought I'd retell how my group tried their hand at scrying.
Our late, lamented Psion got his hands on Clairtangency and decided to drop in on Chymon. Thanks to the power, he was able not just to get a look around, but to mess around with the dragon's head. He started picking up handfulls of gold and moving them across the room.
It was amusing, and I had a fair amount of fun with it.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
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