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ronin
Pie
(11/27/02 7:33:39 pm)
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The Beholder
My group will most likely encounter the beholder next session. They are aware of it's presence due to Kella who they spoke with last session.
I have never used a beholder before against a party. I am currently reading what it is capable of and it seems like the party will defeat it without breaking a sweat. It has alot of eye powers but the saves seem easy enough to make. I suppose forcing 10 saves a round would have its toll eventually though, I just dont know if that will happen before the beholders 60 HP is gone. The anti-magic ray seems like a killer power though to be honest.
I am just curious if I am missing something obvious here. I am also interested to see how this battle has turned out in other games and any ideas/ thoughts the DMs here have on running this creature.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
ronin
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JLXC
Pie
(11/27/02 11:05:46 pm)
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Re: The Beholder
You are right. My party will be a 12-13 level mix when they meet the beholder. I can't imagine it doing more than annoying the PC's. Seriously.
Do not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons,
for you are Crunchy & good with Ketchup
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Killiak
Pie
(11/28/02 1:47:33 am)
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hehe
Make sure it is flying at a comfortable height, behind some cover and give him max HP
Target the mages with Flesh to Stone and Disintegrate (fortitude anyone?) and when they come flying up to enter melee, open the central eye and let them PC's fall 
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madfox
Orc
(11/28/02 3:12:37 am)
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Re: hehe
If you are in a real bad mood, you might let the beholder also target the ceiling with their desintegrate power and make it come tumbling down.
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Azalnubizar 
Pie
(11/28/02 3:36:24 am)
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Re: hehe
If I remember, the beholder was dead pretty fast in my campaign as well. Being 12/13th level a lone beholder isn't much of an opponent anymore.
I like the idea of crushing down the ceiling on the party. Maybe even divide the party through this.
One more thing - how many of your players have natural darkvision? On this level, characters (at least mine) tend to rely on either magical created darkvision on the PCs or on other magical light sources. If you send the Antimagic ray in their direction, you'll have a group running around blindly (except maybe for the dwarf).
Remember, that the Antimagic ray is not blocked by stonewalls or anything like that. Therefore, even if they start shooting blindly (or those still having darkvision) won't hit him.
Once they ran around a bit, have the beholder swoop down, just a bit so it can hit the ceiling with the disintigratin ray.
Give it a 30 something difficulty to avoid damage without seeing the stones coming.
Once half of the group is burried under the stone and 90% are blind in darkness, remove your antimagic ray from one or two targets and begin shooting your rays at them (should not have much touch AC left, half burried under stone).
Remember, that you can attack one target with a maximum of 3 rays...
let us know how it turned out
Azal
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Killiak
Pie
(11/28/02 4:18:06 am)
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hehe
Finger of Death
Disintegrate
Flesh to Stone
He has these and can use them at the same time! Go forth and kick booty
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ronin
Pie
(11/28/02 6:49:14 am)
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re: beholder
The problem I know I will run into is this... Hedrack and the doomdreamers have taught my players well. The party now has a wand of death ward although it is getting low on charges. They also have 2 clerics that ensure the entire party is death warded before anything they believe to be a major combat.
I know I can hit the mages with the anti-magic ray and then force a save or die situation at any time. I am wondering how to deal with those pesky fighters. Most of the party has access to fly as well if they decide to use it, either thru magic items or spells (my group is in the level 12 range).
I am debating on adding the fiendish template to the beholder. This would add +2 to the CR but in return for that would be SR (not a tough one at all though) and some DR too. The Dr is more of what I am interested in to be honest. IIRC the highest DR is 25/ +3 and that would give the beholder some toughness. This also makes it the same CR as the First which is laughable at best.
Another option I was thinking about was to add a class (or two) level to the creature but this doesnt seem like a good idea really. I suppose I am debating if it is worth altering the encounter at all or letting the players plow thru the beholder. I could always add more creatures to the encounter as well upping the EL.
I have a few more days before the game to decide so any other thoughts/ suggestions are welcome. Thanks.
ronin
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Siobharek 
Orc
(11/28/02 6:59:20 am)
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Re: re: beholder
I think that it might be fun to really put the heat on the players (well, their PCs but at level 12-13, they might have a hard time disassociating themselves from their characters). Let something bad happen to each and every fire in the world because of Imix' presence. Let it be hotter, bigger, outright nastier.
In short, now's the time to put the party on a deadline. That means that some encounters, traditionally difficult, will now be somewhat easy. That's OK. Once the PCs get down to the old main temple, there'll be plenty of smack-down for all.
So I don't think I'd boost it overly much. As you say, the group's been through a lot in the Fanes. Let them rest a little before hurting them again.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
BogonTheDestroyer
Pie
(11/28/02 9:18:34 am)
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DR 25/+3 may be too much...
Wouldn't DR 25/+3 be REALLY hard to get through on a beholder if he has an antimagic ray? How are the PCs going to get a +3 weapon? I know that even my strongest PC wouldn't be able to do 25 damage without some buff spells and a magic weapon.
It would definately require some strategy and planning on the part of the PCs. Flanking would be very important. That way the Beholder couldn't have antimagic going on everyone at once.
Might be too tough though.
BogonTheDestroyer
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Andorax
Orc
(11/28/02 9:47:41 am)
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Re: DR 25/+3 may be too much...
Flight versus unflying PCs?
Darkness versus blinded PCs?
Numerous eye rays, and enough intelligence to target weak-save PCs with the right ones?
Isn't this ENOUGH? The Beholder isn't one of the Triad, it isn't Imix, it isn't even a "level" boss. As tasty as they are, this one is not a major encounter, and with some careful cunning, it can decimate the party. The party's fly ability is nixed when they're AMed, as is their darkvision, their lightstones, their spellcasting ability...
Problems with the "tilt and pan" rule for being unable to bring all your eyes to bear? Blind 'em in darkness, then (while tilting downwards) float ABOVE them. When it's your turn again, flip upside down and blast away with all ten, then roll back into place to AM the lot once more.
Will saves (fighters and rogues): Charm Person, Charm Monster, Sleep, Fear, Slow, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Telekinesis.
Fort saves (mages): Flesh to Stone, Disintegrate, Finger of Death
No, the Beholder doesn't have any Reflex save powers to target Clerics with...save them for last, blast away at everyone else. They're not known for their missile capabilties, and if they're denied their spells, there's not much they can do to you.
If, somehow, this just isn't enough for you...consider this:
1) Allow Beholders to "blink"...ie, to shut off their central eye long enough to fire their eye rays then open it again (defeatable by readied actions...PCs can also go while the central eye is shut).
2) For every +2 HD you give a Beholder, increase the DC of it's eye rays by +1.
With more time, I could give you more Beholder tips and tactics...I, Tyrant is a great read.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
ronin
Pie
(11/29/02 2:57:14 pm)
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re: beholder
My party currently has a deadline which they have divined to be at least a week (6 days now) and no more than 2 weeks. They got the "less than a month" deadline while in the Outer Fane and learned of the "more than a week" deadline about 2 weeks after that which was a day or two ago. Thru these 2 divinations they believe they have it narrowed down to somewhere between 6 and 12 days now.
I understand where you are coming from Andorax. I just know this will be a walk for my group unless something unusual happens. I dont have a straight fighter or rogue in the party so everyone will make the WILL saves without breaking a sweat. I will obviously target the mages with FORT save rays and use the anti magic field on the group as well.
When the PCs found out about the presence of the beholder they got very worried about the creature. I wanted them to still have that fear after they combat it. I dont own I, Tyrant but I have seen it at a local store. I'll have to try and make some time to stop by and check it out. I already planned on getting the beholder into position to use all of its eye rays if I needed to do so. I'll let you know how it turns out, the session is Saturday night.
Thanks for the ideas and comments.
ronin
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Thrommel
The DM
(12/1/02 6:36:20 pm)
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Re: beholder
Well, I pounded the crap out of my party with the beholder. (They had already decimated a beholder in a previous side trek, so I decided to try to make this one a real challenge.)
The DD's basically gave up trying to hold the first level of the recovered temple and they did a strategic retreat. I moved the beholder down to area 18 where the the ropers ambush is set up.
The combination of A-M plus roper attacks was pretty brutal. My party really struggled.
Definitely make sure you know how big the A-M arc is and how it moves around every round. Pin down the spell casters and tilt the arc so the beholder can use his other eye rays on anyone the ropers grapple.
If you want to be nastier, team up the beholder with the golems. (The A-M ray doesn't affect constructs.)
But don't tell your players that was MY idea. (I've got enough groups who hate me.  )
-Thrommel, whose first name ain't baby, it's Thrommel -- 'Your Highness' if you're nasty.
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