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Siobharek 
Still here? Wow.
(1/7/03 2:19:09 am)
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Re: Foreshadowing Thrommel
Yup. In one - long lost - journal, Thrommel achieved redemption and became momentarily Good-ish long enough for him to walk out into the sunshine with Jolene. Following the *whoosh*, the Prince was back one True Ressurrection later.
Then there's all the atonement, but especially if you use "The Corruption of Prince Thrommel" from the BoB it's clear that he was dragged, kicking, screaming, and clawing the floor all the way, into vampirism.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Zagig
Here for a while
(1/7/03 3:48:56 pm)
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Re: Timelines
Quote:
Thrommel said:
According to the module, Thrommel was captured at the Battle of Emridy Meadows. This took place 22 years ago when the forces of Furyondy & Veluna initially attacked.
...
So if you go with the module history, there could definitely be a marker on the battlefield.
I just wanted to clarify Thrommel's post a little. The only mention in the module about Thrommel's background is a short sentence in his description. There is no real history to it.
I would suggest that you basically erase this sentence and go with the whole captured before his wedding (canon GH) stuff. There is much more interest in Thrommel by other NPCs this way. Most Thrommel history says that the Scarlet Brotherhood captured Thrommel. However, I don't think that anyone really knows for sure so it could have been the ToEE that took Thrommel and framed the Scarlet Brotherhood.
Also, the marker on the battlefield could still be there, except it's a marker where Thrommel defeated the leader of the forces of Elemental Evil or something like that.
Zag ig
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Kylearanon
Here for a while
(1/8/03 3:00:40 am)
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Foreshadowing Thrommel
Say, can anyone help me here ?
I was wondering if there are details known about Fragarach the Answerer. What kind of sword was it, what were its abilities ? And are there any clues as where it can be found ? if now, where could it possibly be found ? Buried on the battlefield or rather seized by the enemy ?
And what was Thrommel´s faith ?
Kyle, who´s trying to keep this threat alive 
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Siobharek
Still here? Wow.
(1/8/03 3:14:02 am)
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Re: Foreshadowing Thrommel
Check teh BoB for details on Fragarach.
In GH canon, Fragarach was a little odd. It was a sword tied to (I think) Trithereon's faith. Strongly CG, at any rate. Thrommel was a paladin of Heironeous or St. Cuthbert, I think (not sure, though). Have your PCs find "The Corruption of Prince Thrommel" (also in the BoB). There's probably a clue to in which red dragon's lair the sword was left.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
 Infiniti2000
Here for a while
(1/8/03 7:10:48 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Foreshadowing Thrommel
One little note: theres a bronze statue head (head only) in the western bridge complex. I can't remember it's location from memory, perhaps in the hill giant's lair. I think it should be the head from a statue of Thrommel. With a knowledge (nobility) check, maybe DC 20, the players could recognize it as Lord Thrommel and perhaps some accompanying information about Fragarach or Joline.
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ZansForCans 
Here for a while
(1/8/03 12:04:53 pm)
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Re: Foreshadowing Thrommel
Quote:
In GH canon, Fragarach was a little odd. It was a sword tied to (I think) Trithereon's faith. Strongly CG, at any rate. Thrommel was a paladin of Heironeous or St. Cuthbert, I think (not sure, though).
Andorax has a 3e version in the BoB, as Siob mentions, but I'm guessing the original thread on that has disappeared into obscurity (BoB entry was in July 2002). It was before my time here, so I apologize to those that might have hashed all this out before.
There is this from the Appendix of ToEE:
Quote:
This hefty steel broadsword bears a mighty enchantment. It was originally fashioned for a demigod of elsewhen, and eventually passed into the WORLD OF GREYHAWK Setting. It served well for a short time, all too soon falling into the hands of the minions of Chaotic Evil. It has been in their grasp for a decade or more, resting in hiding in the Temple of Elemental Evil, guarded by the worst of elemental grues. Fragarach means "The Answerer."
The sword is of Chaotic Good alignment. Any Lawful creature trying to grasp it takes 1-6 points of damage and falls senseless for 1-10 rounds. A Neutral creature holding it takes only 1-3 points and swoons for 1-4 rounds. In evil hands, Fragarach has no "to hit" bonus whatsoever; in Chaotic Neutral hands, it will strike but one opponent per round. The sword functions perfectly only for a Chaotic Good user. In such hands, its + 4 bonus always operates, and it will strike as many opponents unerringly as have struck at its possessor. Fragarach always hits all such targets, the + 4 pertaining to additional damage only. Note, however, that The Answerer always strikes last in a melee round. Against evil opponents, the bonus doubles (to + 8 ) whenever a natural 20 is rolled for "to hit" determination.
The sword has a hilt of silver and gold wire, most cunningly wrought. Its guard and pommel are set with perfect emeralds (corundum)--7 gems, total value 65,000 gp. Its scabbard is likewise trimmed with precious metal and decorated with many gems of green and golden hue, worth another 35,000 gp.
So, the funny thing is that Thrommel is LG, which means he shouldn't have been able to wield it! In the OJ #12, EGG says this:
Quote:
Q: In T1-4 Temple of Elemental Evil, Prince Thrommel, lawful good, is allowed access to Fragarach, a chaotic good sword of answering. The description of the sword indicates the Prince, not chaotically aligned, would be seriously harmed were he to grasp the sword. Was this simply an editorial blunder or a last jape by his kidnappers? If an error, was it the name of the sword or its alignment that was incorrect?
A: It was an editorial error. The sword should have been designated as LG.
Ouch! From that interview (and other sources), it sounded like there were a lot of editorial issues with ToEE.
Interestingly, the OJ #8, which details Verbobonc says this about it as well:
Quote:
After the original church [of Trithereon] was destroyed during the Long Siege in 412 CY, a marvelous temple appeared in a vision. The Lord Mayor at the time, Crneyh Longspear, afterwards called the Right Worshipful Mayor, proposed the construction of the current temple. After the completion and construction of the temple, the High Priest was entrusted with the holy sword Fragarach, the Answerer. The sword was kept in the Hallowed Sanctum of Trithereon until taken by Prince Thrommel of Furyondy, who led the allied armies at Emridy Meadows. His later disappearance, along with Fragarach, was a great loss to the forces of good.
Now, as Trithereon is CG, I'm guessing this is to keep things in line with the published work (ToEE), rather than what was intended (if it was known at the time of developing that piece). It's hard to know what to do about the details: modify the sword's stated alignment in ToEE (there were other similar swords known to exist of differing alignments according to ToEE), but then why was it in Trithereon's temple? Perhaps the latter needs to be changed. I'm not sure what I'm doing yet IMC, but the time to decide is coming very soon...
Do any of you old-timers... er, I mean keepers of ancient wisdom remember if there was some general consensus when (if?) this was discussed before?
Edit: just reformatted the quotes to look better
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Edited by: ZansForCans at: 1/8/03 9:12:38 pm
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Zagig
Here for a while
(1/8/03 3:47:10 pm)
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Re: Foreshadowing Thrommel
I'd forgotten about that little bit of info about Fragarach. IMC, it fits really well since I switched the Temple of Trithereon and the Temple of St. Cuthbert around. Now, the Temple of St. Cuthbert is the one that appeared in the dream and is now the super-large building in the 3-D map.
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Siobharek
Still here? Wow.
(1/9/03 12:55:53 am)
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Re: Foreshadowing Thrommel
As one of the keepers of useless, distorted pieces of useless info, I seem to remember that the main thrust of the discussion was about Fragarach's 3e abilities rather than its alignment, which was (IIRC) written off as unexplainable.
Personally, I think Fragarach is an ideal weapon for Trithereon (he's quite vengeful), so IMC, I might make it just Holy or Holy and Bane (Evil Outsiders), but I think the weapon is excellent as it stands.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
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