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The guy from Belgium
Here for a while
(1/8/03 8:26:35 am)
question about 'bluffing their way in'
ok, i try to read as many campaign logs as possible, but still i haven't come across many or any parties trying to disguise themselves as EEE clerics and sneaking in

is it at all possible? some rp'in is logical of course and many confrontations can be avoided... but 'sneaking' in as EEE clerics and stuff...

can it be done?

Here for a while
(1/8/03 9:02:19 am)
Re: question about 'bluffing their way in'
My group's just heading to the CRM Saturday. I don't expect them to try to talk past a whole lot of people. But then again they do suprise me at times - in the Moathouse they managed to charm Geynor and learned quite a bit.

As far as I know they should (with some smooth talking) be able to get as far as one of the doors. But without a key they'll have trouble from the lightning towers at that point. Still, RPing will gain them a lot more information that just hacking their way through.

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." -- Buddha<BR><BR>
"Nothing's a cliche when it's happening to you." -- Max Payne

Here for a while
(1/8/03 9:08:28 am)
Re: question about 'bluffing their way in'
Can it be done?

The CRM is the prime place for it - it's disorganised, there's poor communication between factions, and most of the grunts are guards - not likely to get in the face of anyone wearing the right robes and symbols. Plus most of the inhabitants are chaotic, backstabbing, power-mongers or their minions. They must see a lot of faces they don't know and 'staff turnaround' must be pretty high with all the infighting, never mind the occasional group of 'treasure-hungry adventurers' who happen to hear about the place.

The leaders of the gate/bridge complexes are a different matter - some of them are powerful in their own right and really do know something. Name-dropping and strutting around importantly with these folk can be a problem (as evidenced by the 'Naquent as a man' bluff boo-boo). Treated with the right mix of sneering and respect, though, these folks should be bluffable too - faux-pas notwithstanding.

I'd say to bluff convincingly the party would have to:
a) get its story straight (or at least fairly straight and agree to let one person - the 'leader' - do the talking when faced with stuff they don't know - this should be the rogue/bard with the bluff score, to cover tricky moments)
b) dress accordingly - even an adventuring group as a cover would be okay, but walking around with symbols of good gods and whatnot is a sure way to make folk suspicious.
c) be prepared to fight - even those who 'should' be allowed passage may get into trouble in this volatile place - and newcomers shouldn't expect much of any escort between complexes - but still keep up the bluff where possible.
Invoking good gods while in battle (i.e. divine spellcasting) is a sure-fire give-away (and a real sneaky test for the more intelligent inhabitants to use to determine loyalties - see below).

The temple complexes are a different story, but it's not all bad.
On the plus side, ALL the priests of the EEE or T (who are at least nominally in charge) are Barking Mad(tm).
Their Sense Motive is shot to bits by their Madness score - plus, how many NPCs here actually >have< Sense Motive listed as a skill? - that leaves d20+(reduced)Wis bonus vs. your Rogue's Bluff - pretty good odds.
On the downside, they are Barking Mad(tm) so there's no telling what they might do, or expect of anyone wishing to pass through.
If my PCs were clever I'd maybe let good RP and bluff get them through one temple encounter - the next time they tried to bluff their way through, I'd have the NPC priests >insist< the PC's 'leader' help officiate at a ceremony - preferably one involving human sacrifice...I can just see them try to bluff their way through that...or have a mad priest offer his brother-in-worship some tasty flesh flayed off the still-living victim...sorry, got carried away :) :o

By the time they reach the Fanes though - it ain't happening!
Still, they should have learned a lot and got a whole lot more role-play bang for their CRM buck if they talked their way through at least some encounters.

Grumgarr - who wishes the Paladin had died earlier rather than later

Edited by: Grumgarr at: 1/8/03 9:17:28 am
The guy from Belgium
Here for a while
(1/8/03 9:24:57 am)
Re: question about 'bluffing their way in'
your last line says a lot...

i DO have a paladin in the party, Pelor worshipper...

is learning no to act too impulsively when confronted with evil...

aaagh... his detect evil has thwarted many a good plan of mine... but it's part of the package...

we'll see how it goes, thanks for the input!

Still here? Wow.
(1/8/03 9:51:43 am)
Re: question about 'bluffing their way in'
I keep trying to explain that the Paladin's code balances his Detect Evil ability nicely, preventing cool tactics like this.

Yes, it can be done. No, most PCs don't think of it. A pity. I really would like to see a genuinely ruthless group try resorting to bluffing, torture, and other similar tactics to actually get solid information and make good use out of it.

Alas, it's not likely. I'm starting up a new group in a few weeks, and I've already got commitments from the most enthusiastic player as to what he's running.

Yup...a Paladin.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

The guy from Belgium
Here for a while
(1/8/03 9:56:41 am)
Re: question about 'bluffing their way in'
so with a paladin that is true to his character... id est detect and stop evil, it's very hard?

thought so... pitty!

i've written up the vows and codes that my paladin has to live by... those codes pretty much rule out the sneaking attempt... if anyone is interested, i could post his vows here...

next session (feb 1st), he'll really ba accepted into the church of Pelor and he'll have to swear on his mortal soul to live by the vows...

anyone got time to read through them and post suggestions?

if so, i'll put em on Asap

Here for a while
(1/8/03 10:32:01 am)
Re: question about 'bluffing their way in'
The Guy From Belgium,

I would love to see those vows to use as a guide for a character I'm planning for a new campaign. Plus possibly help the 2 paladins in my group with RP'ing a paladin.

Not that they are doing it bad, but they are really struggling with the whole its evil kill it thing.

They jumped Lareth in Nulb even though he was trying to talk to them.


Looking around
(1/8/03 11:08:05 am)
My guys sure did...
They managed to steal some robes and EEE symbols from Tal Chammish, and waltzed in through the main gate behind a startlingly charismatic Mindbender -- who not only found the perfect thing to say to get the party past the front door, but earned them an escort all the way around to the Earth door of the Outer Fane. Needless to say, they ended up in a situation that was way over their heads... but that's part of the fun. Plus, I was able to use the "Cave of Ancient Secrets" web enhancement to create a sort-of "escape hatch" that earned them experience and now allows them to get back into the main action faster than dungeon-crawling through what seems the interminable CRM.

The guy from Belgium
Here for a while
(1/8/03 11:09:38 am)
Re: question about 'bluffing their way in'
i'm starting a new thread to discuss them right now!

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