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ZansForCans 
Here for a while
(1/17/03 11:26:55 pm)
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Some XP questions...
I'm awarding XP for last session and ran into a curious bit. Are things like the black sun and the corrupted pool in the obelisk chamber in the moathouse actually 'traps'? They don't have CR's but the pool area has an EL assigned. Would (did?) you assign XP for 'dealing' with them (saving or taking the damage)?
I've been curious about how different DM's handle 'regular' traps too. I have tended to split the XP up equally for traps among the whole party present, treating them as a team, even though the rogue is usually the one doing most of the work and putting their butt on the line. In addition, the ones I mentioned above are more 'personal', I guess and I'm not sure what to do with them if it does look like I should be assigning XP.
Finally, it seems like I'm handing out a lot of XP per session for the last few (moathouse clear--lots of combat), but I'd still like to award RP bonuses. The XP rate/session can get pretty high with this adventure, so I'm wondering if those of you who do give RP bonuses changed your method for RTEE.
Thanks!
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msherman
Here for a while
(1/18/03 6:37:54 am)
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Re: Some XP questions...
Quote:
Finally, it seems like I'm handing out a lot of XP per session for the last few (moathouse clear--lots of combat), but I'd still like to award RP bonuses. The XP rate/session can get pretty high with this adventure, so I'm wondering if those of you who do give RP bonuses changed your method for RTEE.
Yup, I've noticed the same thing. My group plays long sessions (6-8 hours, every 2-3 weeks), so we should get more than average xp, but I'm worried I might be giving out too much. We'll be playing what I hope is the last moathouse session tomorrow, (most undead and gnolls are already gone, leaving the clerics, a few gnolls, and the traps etc), and I added up all the XP available in that session and it came out to about 3500xp per character. A couple of the party members hit 4th last session (we have 6 players, and started the module at 223333) and I expect them to both hit 5th in a single session.
As for the RP/story bonuses, the party rescued Spugnoir last session, but I held off on a bonus then for it, because I was worried about giving out too much XP for the session (it was already 2666xp/char), especially with 2 players not there that day. In retrospect, I think I should have given the bonus, so I'm going to give it at the start of tomorrows session, to the entire party, since the two who missed the last session did take part in a lot of the plan to rescue Spugnoir (in fact, they were the two characters who did all the RP with Renne and Haunor in town to find out about that mission, in the first place).
I am a bit concerned that the party may be getting ahead of the "expected" level (they'll be 6 5th level characters at the end of the moathouse, which should be hitting EL6), and I'm worried they'll just run a sword through Lareth without caring, so I may level him up a bit to encourage some roleplay. But it should even out once they hit the CRM, even though they'll be EL7 by the time they get there -- they'll just start leveling slower until they catch up to "appropriate" EL parts of the dungeon.
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ZansForCans
Here for a while
(1/18/03 8:34:02 am)
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Re: Some XP questions...
Thanks for the info. That's just about the same as what I have been getting although our sessions are 1/2 as long (~3-4 hours). The XP per session is not so high that they're leveling up fast in real time, but in game time, it's a little silly since they may possibly level twice in under a week! But, admittedly they pushed themselves to the max in the moathouse draining all their spells cleaning most of it out in one push.
I did give a bonus for Spugnoir's return, although I gave him an NPC share of that (as well as every combat he took part in on the way out). Our run is about the same place as yours, although they've cleaned out Hommlet for the most part too (only Vacra and Jaroo remain). They are at ~6000/character (party of 5, all started at 3rd).
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msherman
Here for a while
(1/18/03 8:52:56 am)
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Re: Some XP questions...
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The XP per session is not so high that they're leveling up fast in real time, but in game time, it's a little silly since they may possibly level twice in under a week!
Heh, you think that's bad, my campaign started at level 1, a mere 13 days ago in game time... Mind you, I did accelerate the XP a bit for the pre-RTTTOEE adventures (which consisted of roadside encounters on the trip from Verbobonc to Hommlet) to get them ready for the module.
Quote:
I did give a bonus for Spugnoir's return, although I gave him an NPC share of that (as well as every combat he took part in on the way out). Our run is about the same place as yours, although they've cleaned out Hommlet for the most part too (only Vacra and Jaroo remain). They are at ~6000/character (party of 5, all started at 3rd).
Heh. Spugnoir was no help at all to my party -- he hid out in his closet until after the party killed the ghouls/ghasts, including a Ghoulish Chatrilon. They've already killed Jaroo, Maridosen and Chat (twice, now!), but the Mill cult remains. I'm going to have Dunrat hole up for a while, and cut a deal with Utreshimon to bash the party together when they leave Hommlet -- both of them hate the party quite a bit by now. I've got 3 characters at ~10700, one at ~9400, and two at ~7000.
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Zagig
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(1/18/03 12:24:54 pm)
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Re: Some XP questions...
Zans, I am big on role-playing XP as well so I use one of the variant rules in the DMG and only award half XP for monster encounters. The other half (or part of it) I give out as RP XP. If the session is combat-heavy, then the RP is for little things like good ideas, noticing clues, or just figuring some things out ("Hey, this is the Earth Temple.").
What I do is figure out the full XP award for monsters. Then I cut that in half. Then, I try to remember how much RP each player had in that game session. Using that I add between 90 to 100% of the half. Since everyone knows how much XP everyone else got, the none-RPers know that they need to pick things up a bit.
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domconnor
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(1/19/03 5:31:43 pm)
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Re: Some XP questions...
I have 6-8 players and we play for about 4 hours every week.
We started the adventure about 5-6 months ago. the party all started at 4th (some did pre adventures). I was a little worried that there were too many players - but i was advised - and thought - that the higher number of players would cause a slow down in levelling.
I have to say that at every point my party has been at the avaerage level for the "4 players" the adventure states. There have been many deaths (about 7 so far) and im not that leanient on the level drop. (start new character - start at the lowest level ... res obviously drops you a level)
My group have just defeated the water temple - and have destroyed the earth temple awhile ago - along with the first bridge complex. The levels are 5,5,6,7,8,5,7 which is about right for that far in.
I also have to say - that my party only just manage to hack there way thru thus thing. 4 players would certainly not be able to manage the same way as my players are doing it. 2 players died tonight for example - dropped by a huge water elemental summoned in the water temple. Nasty damage ! 2d10 +10 really racks up with 3 attacks a round.
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smetzger
Here for a while
(1/20/03 11:24:45 am)
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Re: Some XP questions...
My party pounded the moathouse altar into the ground so I gave them XP for CR=EL on that one.
Yes, for traps I divide the XP equally between the group.
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Kelashein
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(1/20/03 9:41:17 pm)
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Re: Some XP questions...
I divvy Xp for all monster & trap encounters equally as well. Even if you're not directly picking the lock, you're still keeping watch, healing the wounded, etc. Everyone is a team and the Rogue is doing his job, not some bonus act. I do give a bit of a bonus for playing your role, however. I'm probably a little over-generous with Xp, but it hasn't been a problem. My party of six or seven plus NPCs have been right about the right level at the right time to squeak by with a little ingenuity.
After divvying up encounter XP, as a wind-down we examine each character for a few minutes and recall ideas offered, the character's high points of the day, etc and they gain RP XP for that. Fighters get solo-kill XP (usually 100xp, double if it's a great big baddie, half if a warrior or whatever). Clerics get bonus' for saving lives (not just healing, although if they do a WHOLE lot of that, they do). If a character is at neg 8 and the Cleric is timely with Cure Minor, the Cleric is doing his job. Rogues get bonus' for disarming traps, picking locks, sneak-attacks, scouting, etc. Wizards get solo-kill XP like Fighters, but I'm a little more selective about awarding it. A well-placed Fireball doesn't net you 12 solo-kills, for example. Speaking of which, there is a limit to how much you can get in one fight (otherwise the solo-kills could easily outweigh the actual EL in value). As a general rule of thumb, I don't give out more than 300 per encounter in this category no matter how fabulous your character was in a given fight.
Using your Feats & other special abilities in certain circumstances gain you an award as well. Shouldn't the Fighter who has mastered Whirlwind Attack get a bonus for getting herself in the right position to utilize it effectively and doing so? Shouldn't the Druid who has taken the shape of a bat and scouts a section of the CRM get a bonus? When a Rogue lays an ambush for the Ogre and sneak-attack-crits him to death in one round, she gets a bonus. Particularly if she's a halfling and the Ogre lands on zero hp and begs for his life....
If there is a story award, I kick that in as well (rescuing Spugnoir, uncovering the cultists in Hommlet, etc). If one particular character played a big role in accomplishing an objective, they get a little bonus. Depending on the importance of the event 2-500 XP. Of course if they actually manage to foil the doomdreamers, they'll get more than that (mission accomplished, world saved from certain doom, an important event).
In other campaigns I haven't been quite this generous, but it's working well in RTEE.
Thinking on this line, it also sort of makes sense to give some sort of bonus to those characters who deplete their resources before returning to town. This symbolizes giving it all you've got and using your powers to their fullest extent. This might also curb a little of the Invisible-Rogues-Hiding-While-Everyone-Gets-Smashed-And-The-Wizard -Is-Still-Conserving-His-Spells-Syndrome mentioned above.
It also might create the problem of everybody blowing their wad as quickly as possible. It could also put an end to the Go-Back-And-Forth-From-CRM-To-Rastor-Eighty-Five-Times-In-One-Session
Syndrome that my party suffered from one Sunday last Autumn....
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Siobharek 
Still here? Wow.
(1/21/03 12:43:24 am)
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Re: Some XP questions...
I think this may be a general 3e thing. My party leveled up like nobody's business and have reached 10th-11th level within a year, game time. And that includes several month-long breaks for magic item creation et al.
I've begun giving a set amount of XP per session now (ad hoc XP variant from the DMG). 250/avg. PC level, to be exact. That has slowed down things abit, as it roughly means that it'll take 4 sessions - where the player has been there, mind you - for a PC to level up. That works pretty well.
Siobharek
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