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mak
Here for a while
(1/19/03 9:58:34 pm)
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A sure TPK?
(MAK's campaign)
The PC's have recently gotten Hedrack REALLY mad - they managed to sneak in and rummage his room while he wasn't there etc. So Hedrack sent the succubus after them to Verbobonc to spy on them as he has known for some time that they stay there between raids. The demon keeps a low profile and uses clairaudience and ethereal jaunt to eavesdrop on their conversations and reports their plans regularly to Hedrack. The cult already knows their usual tactics: clairvoy, boost to the teeth, teleport in, make a fast strike and teleport out. The most commonly used spells are also known.
The party's next plan is to try and take out Chymon with the usual tactics. The succubus has already warned the cult of this and is now back, listening and waiting for them to start boosting. When the attack preparations start, she teleports to alert Hedrack & co and immediately goes back. Just before she thinks the PC's are about to start the attack, she teleports in again to alert the defenders of imminent action.
The defense plan is like this:
- Hedrack & Naquent are waiting close to the Fire Door, unseen (also from a possible clairvoyance), wearing standard boosts & true seeing
- Chymon has received a spell immunity against the probably most dangerous spells (enervation & cone of cold)
- Once the PC's arrive, Chymon stomps on a small ceramic jar containing a rock with deeper darkness - her blindsight and the priests' true seeing sees through it as well as any invisibilities the PC's probably use
- this is a trigger for the priests to start blasting against the blinded heroes: blade barrier into the doorway to keep the meleemachines inside the room, then destruction on the wizard, if fails then dimensional anchor to prevent escape
- no reinforcement troops are planned in the initial phase, since the plan heavily relies on the darkness - Chymon with blindsight gets a free rein meleewise and any spell support needs true seeing on the casters
- if the dimensional anchor holds and Chymon seems to be losing, she will spend an attack to eat the darkness rock so the ogre guards may charge in - if really hurt, she attempts to escape by opening the fire door (which will allow the PC's to leave the darkness as well)
The PC's are pretty powerful themselves (party level 10), but jumping right into a EL 16 trap will in the worst case (= no teleport out possible) lead to a TPK. Any thoughts? Should the PC's have a chance to somehow learn of the trap (how discreet can the succubus be?) Is Hedrack going to use this much force - i.e. participate personally?
MAK
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Siobharek 
Still here? Wow.
(1/20/03 1:49:51 am)
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Re: A sure TPK?
You might take Hedrack out of the equation "Go Naquent, and bring me their heads - or lose your own...". If you do that, I think you'll be OK.
Good way to use the succubus, BTW. I used her the same way myself - except she got caught and killed. 
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Grumgarr
Here for a while
(1/20/03 4:29:16 am)
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Re: A sure TPK?
Are you giving the group a Scry roll (DC 20) to spot the Succubus's Clairvoyance attempts?
Do they even suspect they're being spied on?
They're 10th level - they should have some idea that their own tactics - scrying enemies, for instance, can also be used on them.
I'm not sure exactly how Ethereal beings perceive the manterial plane - they can see into the material plane, clearly, but can they hear? If they can't hear exactly what's being said, the Ethereal Succubus won't make such a good spy (though perhaps she can read lips). I think (in the absence of a rule-quote to the contrary) I'd allow ethereal beings to hear the material plane within about 30' or so, but this (spying from the ethereal plane) does make the spying more difficult to detect.
Otherwise, Clairvoyance/Clairaudience are the best spying methods, but these work on locations, not people, so the Succubus needs to know where the PCs are.
Do they keep a low profile?
Where do they do their buffing prior to teleport, etc.
If your group are paranoid (mine are...now) a simple Detect Magic might reveal a scrying portal, (though the Succubus might recognise the spell being cast and could end the spell before it has time to 'zoom in') - and ethereal beings are visible to See Invisibility.
I don't see Hedrack putting himself on the front line (plus this makes for a much nastier encounter) - 'just' Chymon with buffs/protections, plus Naquent (who can escape by Ethereal Jaunt if need be) will be a very tough encounter.
Also, the bad guys may well not be able to time things to perfection - maybe the good guys scry the Fire Door and see Naquent casting Spell Immunity on Chymon, or finish buffing themselves and scry/teleport in while Naquent is on her way there, having been alerted by the Succubus.
And the Succubus spy might be spotted if she spends all day watching them (can she remain ethereal indefinitely?)
Another alternative is to have Hedrack's plans include Varachan - either scrying the PCs while they're planning/buffing or once alerted that they're coming by the Succubus - he's Hedrack's No.2 so how about
"Go Varachan, and extinguish these interfering fools' lives"
With or without Naquent in the picture.
With is almost certain to blow his cover, as he can't cast spells and Naquent is pretty sure to notice if he fakes it (though perhaps Chymon could be convinced she'd received a Spell Immunity from Varachan if Naquent is not around).
Grumgarr - who doesn't fancy playing the bluffing game with a red dragon himself
Edited by: Grumgarr at: 1/20/03 4:30:25 am
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 Infiniti2000
Here to stay
(1/20/03 5:10:23 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: A sure TPK?
Grumgarr and Siobharek provide excellent advice. I'd probably place the ogres outside the door on the bridge to prevent physical escape. With just Chymon and Naquent, it is EL 13, right? With a well-prepared response, that should be deadly enough. Also spell immunity protects against 4th level or lower spells, so you cannot use it against cone of cold. I recommend protection from elements (cold). If they know that the group might use a dispel magic, consider doubling up the most powerful defensive spells so it gives an added chance that one of them remains in effect.
Also, you can have the succubus present ethereally, watching the fight. If things go well for the bad guys, she might appear next to a wizard party member in the back in an attempt to drain a level or two, then flee again. Alternatively, and this is slightly off-topic and twisted, she could be with Hedrack, er, having a go. The party would hear this over the noise of the fight. "Oh, Hedrack!"
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Grumgarr
Here for a while
(1/20/03 6:15:05 am)
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Re: A sure TPK?
Quote:
I'd probably place the ogres outside the door on the bridge to prevent physical escape.
or how about alerting a tower full of SERs and letting them sit blocking the bridge (they biiiig)
"Oh, Hedrack!" 
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AshaThoth
Looking around
(1/20/03 7:18:16 am)
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Okay, so Hedrack is a little abusive...
...but these guys are tenth level, and they've obviously had way too much success doing the same thing over and over again. If it were me, I'd be tempted to pull a "BLACK HAWK DOWN" and waste them for their complacency. Maybe not all of them -- consider holding off on the dimensional anchor so some of them can get away and you don't have a TPK to deal with. But a little bit of surprise round nastiness with buffed up bad guys? Oh yeah.
And I would definitely use Hedrack here, at least for a round or two. Have him use the "I win" button on the party's cleric (that would be "harm" followed by "slay living" while hasted) then have him "word of recall" back to his chambers in the next round. Let Chymon and Naquent do the clean-up work. Or heck, what good is a Blackgaurd12/Pal3 vampire if you don't put him to use? Heh...
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Siobharek
Still here? Wow.
(1/20/03 7:26:27 am)
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Re: A sure TPK?
Personally, I'd go for the dim. anchor. More than almost anything else, that shows that the opposition has begun taking notes and doing its homework.
And if you cast dimensional anchor, it will be a TPK if hedrack sticks around.
As to Thrommel... It's a compelling idea, but that way there'll be NO chance of negotiation with the old guy.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
madfox
Still here? Wow.
(1/20/03 8:32:37 am)
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Re: A sure TPK?
Quote:
And if you cast dimensional anchor, it will be a TPK if hedrack sticks around.
Not if you give them a decent chance to flee through the doors and if the players are smart, they might open that route as soon as they are dimensional anchore. I do agree that you should make their life misserable. They sound like way to contemplated. At least you did not provide Monte Cooks teleport redirect spell to the drow wizard 
On a side note - if Hedrack is so fully aware of the PCs and their HQ, why isn't he using the succubus to stir some trouble at their home? A summoned demon with the orders to torch the place where they are staying and making it very obvious the demon did it because of the PCs would do wonders. I wonder how many authorities would want to have the PCs around after such a show 
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Kelashein
Here for a while
(1/20/03 10:11:49 pm)
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Re: A sure TPK?
I like the idea of Succubus causing problems at their HQ. Make 'em move to Hommlet! Perhaps if Varachan isn't ordered to "buff" Chymon, he could at least have learned of the plan....naaah...that makes it too easy if he tips 'em off. If you want them to vary their tactics a little, just teach them a lesson so to speak. Varachan should be there to hook up Chymon. The deeper darkness thing will work wonders. When the Tiefling Rogue used her Darkness ability IMC, Vranthis declared, NOW I'm INVINCIBLE!!! Dragons and Darkness definately go together (and you might want to raise the EL a little just for that advantage). But V can be there to run interferance. He could "engage in melee" those PCs who are most wounded and miss purposefully. Have him make bluff checks (+9) to look convincing to Chymon. He can also use this opportunity to transmit information to PCs. He could make threats, "Did you really think we would be unprepared....amateurs!" He could also be a little more subtle if he needs to. He has an innuendo mod of +5 due to Wis & ranks of Bluff. He could also use his Wand of Cure Light as if it were a Wand of Inflict Light to heal the stragglers...screaming, DIE, DIE, DIE all the while...
But definately go with Dimensional Anchor. Make the PCs have to find a way out of this mess that doesn't involve teleportation. If they happen to have a Fire Key, they might have a chance (and Chymon might even let them go if he thinks the message has been driven in hard enough; he also might follow them a ways out to give 'em a little Fire every d4 rds if they still have excess hp after having figured out that the OF is on to their tactics--he'll probably retreat after a couple of Lightning Towers have inadvertantly electrocuted him....)
It should make for a great encounter. As long as you leave them a few outs, you won't feel absolutely terrible about a TPK.
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mak
Here for a while
(1/20/03 10:47:36 pm)
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Re: A sure TPK?
Good points - thanks folks!
Things have advanced: the PC's have been communicating with Varachan for a while already, and the latest contact (by clairaudience) had V being very tense and short. He suspects that Hedrack suspects something...
Anyway, the PC's learned that Hedrack MIGHT use some other forms of spying on them and went on extra-careful mode. A divination confirmed that their tactics are known by the Cult (no big news there..) and I dropped a hint about the darkness trick as well, but nothing on the dimensional anchor
So no blindly jumping into a trap - which I never really suspected, just dared to hope... So, change the plan a bit to a "poor-man's version":
- Hedrack is not personally involved, Naquent runs the show
- Chymon gets a protection from cold on top of other boosts
- No blade barrier, but ogres piled 2 ranks deep in the doorway
- But still definately a BLACK HAWK DOWN (excellent name there, AshaThoth...)
MAK
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Kylearanon
Here for a while
(1/21/03 12:39:37 am)
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Re: A sure TPK?
Hm, I am not that experienced in high level combat. But what is the point of casting harm followed by slay living, AshaThoth ? Shouldn´t one of it be enough ? I mean, that´s what slay living is fore, right ? And wouldn´t it be put to better use aimed at the wizard ? After 'harming' the cleric. That should pretty much drop both ...
Anyway, I like this thread here. You guys discussing downfalls of adventureres is just simply worth reading over and over again. 
Keep it up
Kyle
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Siobharek
Still here? Wow.
(1/21/03 12:48:57 am)
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Re: A sure TPK?
Well, if you want a character dead, Harm + Slay Living is a great way of piling up corpses. Harm reduces the character to 1-4 hit points. Slay Living kills the character or, if the character makes the save (most likely), kills the character by inflicting 3d8 + 1/lvl hp damage.
Most campaigns seem to have the house rule that Harm, like all the other inflict wounds spells, should have a save for half damage.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. Edited by: Siobharek at: 1/21/03 12:49:38 am
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madfox
Still here? Wow.
(1/21/03 3:32:43 am)
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Re: A sure TPK?
As far as harm is concerned I prefer the way somebody else on these boards treat it: as a inflict spell that deals 1d8+1 dmg/lvl to a maximum of 20d8+20 with a will save for half damage. Heal works the same, but it cures instead of harms.
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Zarrock
Here for a while
(1/21/03 4:59:43 am)
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Harm
I second that Madfox, Harm seems to be the spell the largest majority see as broken. And it's one of the things that'll be fixed in the rev. Core Books for sure. I wouldn't use it on my players as written (or let them use it for that matter)...
-Zarrock
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