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shidara
Here for a while
(1/21/03 7:20:17 am)
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Replacing the Bugbears?
My p;arty is nearing the bugbear area, and, since they are nearing 10th level, I fear it will be relatively useless to have them fight the BBs. Instead, I'd like to replace them with something closer to their levels, but I'm not sure what. any suggestions?

Shidara

The guy from Belgium
Here for a while
(1/21/03 7:25:17 am)
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Re: Replacing the Bugbears?
maybe you shouldn't replace them!

if you do, you'll have to hand out more experience if the PC's kill them, so they'll level even faster

the general consensus of this board seems to be to let the PC's have a breeze for now, so that they'll suffer more later... :evil

you might want to alter the bugbears' behaviour though...

they'll first have a few swings at the PC's but once they see it has no effect (AC too high or something) they'll

a) surrender
b) bargain
c) run off

they will not fight to the death I think!

just my thoughts on this

HeresDaryl
Here for a while
(1/21/03 8:00:55 am)
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Re: Replacing the Bugbears?
Don't need to replace them, but you could toughen them up just a little (a level or two of Warrior or Rogue) and make them more tactically astute. Won't skew the XP curve too much and will likely mean a more interesting encounter.

madfox
Still here? Wow.
(1/21/03 8:34:26 am)
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Re: Replacing the Bugbears?
Sometimes it can be a pleasent change of pace when you have got an easy fight ;) Besides, who says the PCs need to fight? They could also decide to talk with the bugbears for who knows what purposes. I would not boost up the bugbears.

shidara
Here for a while
(1/21/03 9:13:14 am)
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Re: Replacing the Bugbears?
Knowing my party, it will be "let's see how many rooms we can clear before Improved Invisibility wears off."

When my party encountered the Orc caves, they absolutely decimated an early patrol of Orcs - I needn't have even rolled Initiative; they were all dead within 2 rounds having done zero damage to the PCs.

I then decided that rather than waste even 1/2 hour on the pointless slaughter of the Orcs, the Orc caves would be empty (wish I would have read the alternate Orc caves entry before then . . .).

How do you handle it when the party meets something they outclass by a factor of 3 or more? Is it worth even rolling Init? I decided it is not - I'd rather give them a challenge that's at least worthy of an Init roll than anything else.

Right now, I'm browsing through the Book of Challenges to see if I can find some sort of trap or other non-combat encounter matching the ELs of the Bugbears to replace them with. Perhaps another Dwarven area?

Any suggestions for that aspect?

Shidara

Thrommel
Can't leave now (mod)
(1/21/03 4:29:17 pm)
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Re: Replacing the Bugbears?
Don't replace them -- keep the story moving. If your players are overconfident, they'll eventually run into an area that will challenge them.

So empty the place out, but leave signs that the bugbears met an awful fate. Like maybe there are Grey Render claw marks and bits of gore all over the place.

Or maybe the water temple stormed the area and kidnapped several women for sacrifices. The chief and warriors are dead and Steeran and Fesad have defected to join forces with Kelashein. The remaining bugbear women are suspicious of the PC's at first (might be more water forces) but desperately need their help. Could be a good RP opportunity and a chance for the party to learn more about the Water Temple.

Also keep in mind that your players don't want every fight to be a big fight. Sometimes it's good to let them flex their muscle and walk all over some opponents. They should get less XP if they truly outclass an opponent -- or you can always award a little less.

But there's no question players like winning, it's okay to go a little easy on them once in a while. It also adds some versimilitude when they realize that not EVERYONE they meet has an equal number of levels in fighter or sorceror.

-Thrommel, who must be feeling feverish, giving out all this advice to take it easy on the players...

Kelashein
Here for a while
(1/21/03 6:22:34 pm)
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Re: Replacing the Bugbears?
Alternatively, you could decide that one of your PCs is the "chosen one who was sent to deliver us from the Temple Forces" and the bugbears could fall all over themselves worshipping.

St. Darean, patron saint of Bugbears....

shidara
Here for a while
(1/22/03 12:08:05 pm)
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Re: Replacing the Bugbears?
Best. Suggestions. Ever.

I am absolutely going to have the Water Temple ravage the bugbears looking for sacrifices for the altar. Maybe Fesad and/or Steeran left behind to ask for assistance from the PCs, and a sprinkling of new magic items among the Water Temple bigwigs to boost their power level a bit to make for a challenge at least . . .

I LOVE these forums . . .

Shidara

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