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Abelard
Still here? Wow.
(1/24/03 5:21:41 pm)
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keys and altars
What are the repercussions for the keys if a corresponding temple altar is destroyed?

Obviously, it's no longer possible to perform the "blessing" with the corresponding greater key. But do characters who have already received this blessing keep it, or does it go away? (I'm thinking it stays... otherwise, some spider eater riders are going to get a rude shock...)

Can a door still be opened with an "altar-destroyed" greater key? How does the greater key work anyway for a group - do you just have to be accompanying someone with the greater key in order to get through the door?

Can two altar-destroyed greater keys form a master key?

Kenmis
Here for a while
(1/24/03 9:03:19 pm)
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Altar-Destroyed Keys
I would like to know too, as the only functional altar left IMC's CRM is Air. :( Not only that, but the PC's have ALL the keys for EVERYBODY else!

Will they work? I'm leaning towards yes, because otherwise the PC's are screwed, since currently it would be impossible to form a Master Key IMC.

Infiniti2000
Here to stay
(1/25/03 7:46:56 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: keys and altars
The keys are tied to the elements, operating the doors. They are not actually tied with the altars. So, destroying the altar will not affect the corresponding keys and they will still open Outer Fane doors as appropriate.

Grumgarr
Here for a while
(1/26/03 6:16:05 am)
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Re: keys and altars
Yeah - I think that's about right.

Destroying the altars might (or might not, YMMV) destroy the corresponding element's Sword, but the keys need to stick around - if the PCs can't make two Greater Keys, they might be totally unable to get into the Black Spike.

The Blessings/opening the Doors breaks down like this:

A Greater Key of an element, plus the correct phrase spoken at the altar of that element, 'blesses' the speaker.
The blessing stops that person from being fried by the Lightning Towers (if s/he flies around near the Inner Fane) and the blessing lasts indefinitely.

Anyone so blessed can also open the corresponding Door with a touch (Fire Blessing allows the Fire Door to be opened) - otherwise the Doors only open to the touch of the Greater Key of their element.

Non-blessed folk are able to cross the bridges safely, unless they fly, and can pass the Doors so long as the Doors are opened by the touch of a blessed person or their element's Greater Key.

Two Greater Keys are required to form a Master Key - which should probably open all of the elements' Doors too (though not IMC, just to keep my PCs guessing) as well as the Door to the Black Spike.

Grumgarr - whose Lesser Keys of Fire took a one-way trip into the Black Sun.

Infiniti2000
Here to stay
(1/26/03 9:38:39 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: keys and altars
"...if the PCs can't make two Greater Keys, they might be totally unable to get into the Black Spike."
That's a very good point. Perhaps this should be put into the FAQ so that DM's don't give the PC's a real difficult time getting into the Black Spike; unless they want to, of course. It should at least be brought to their attention before a rash decision is made in game.

DM Armand
Here for a while
(1/27/03 3:49:04 am)
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Re: keys and altars
This is what I did with my group.......

1) Destroying the altar destroys the corresponding element's Sword
2) Destroying the altar has no effect on the corresponding elemental key accept you can't perform the blessing... accept if you do it in the outer fane with the altar there (works on all keys sins it is not an altar to only one element but all... and more :evil )
3) The blessing on the altars in the CRM lasts for 24 hours (so that ppl. from the CRM fight for power over the keys as well).
4) Hedrack has got one lesser key from every element and put's them together as a Master key of all Element's to perform the blessing in the Outer fane that lasts indefinitely (the spider eaters are blessed from the Outer fane altar like the rest of it's inhabitants).

And that's that, so what do you think?

Edited by: DM Armand at: 1/27/03 11:09:42 am
Zagig
Here for a while
(1/28/03 9:59:32 pm)
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Re: keys and altars
That's a pretty cool idea, Armand. It makes sense to me that Hedrack would have the ability to bless someone. Plus, he needs some way to get inside the Black Spike to make reports.

Cordo Crowfoot
Here for a while
(1/28/03 10:55:28 pm)
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Re: keys and altars
Just out of curiosity, how many people said that destroying the altars did NOT destroy the powers of the sword? I'm curious as I am considering that for my own campaign. Both because it is kind of a cruel choice that I don't think my players would enjoy, and because they are behind the curve in treasure as is.

Grumgarr
Here for a while
(1/29/03 4:47:38 am)
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Re: keys and altars
Zagig - Hedrack already has two ways into the Black Spike - the Door itself 'questions anyone it does not recognise' - presumably the Door knows Hedrack and will simply allow him entry.

Plus he has a tentacle rod and can use it in the Greater Temple to transport straight into the Black Spike.

Grumgarr

Taxman66
Here for a while
(1/29/03 5:58:45 am)
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Re: keys and altars
Cordo...
At one point Monte said the swords weren't supposed to be destroyed when the alters go. I see several options:
1. The swords die when the alter does. If the PCs are under-magic, then arrange for them some additional support (Big wigs provide stuff as they learn the seriousness of the situation). Also note that you can upgrade a currently used item (frex: weapon) faster than selling an old one and creating a new one from scratch. Another idea would be to put an item creation lab in a few of the temples, perhaps with a storage of prepatory materials (i.e. 'you find a forge capable of being used to enhance arms and armor and you find materials worth xxx thousand gold towards the enhancing of weapons).

2. The swords aren't destroyed.

3. 'Compromise'. The swords aren't destroyed, but they loose their elemental blast attack. Add some additonal treasure perhaps including 1. above.

Taxman
"It takes an uncommon mind to think of these things, Hobbes." - Calvin

Cordo Crowfoot
Here for a while
(1/29/03 5:40:32 pm)
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Re: keys and altars
Hmmm... I like option 3.

checkstop
Looking around
(1/29/03 8:45:07 pm)
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keys and altars
I have some general questions so excuse my ignorance...

There are 2 ways to get into the outer fanes. Either you have a greater key or someone has been blessed by that key in a ceremony and touches the appropriate door.

What clues are given to the characters that this is the case. How do they know that 2 lesser keys fit together to make a greater key? Do they look like they fit together?

How about the phrases? Any clues there? I haven't read the whole adventure module yet so I probably haven't come across it yet.

I'm just curious!

Infiniti2000
Here to stay
(1/30/03 7:13:29 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: keys and altars
On page 39, under Getting from the Mines to the Fanes, it says that "All clerics know the key phrase for their element." This implies that all clerics know how the keys operate. The keys don't necessarily look like they fit together (no corresponding holes or latches), they just fuse for 15 minutes if pressed together. If the PC's never manage to get the information out of a cleric, there is always Varachan to help out, or anyone from the Outer/Inner Fanes (like an assassin that is captured). Besides clerics, you can easily make the assumption that leaders of various complexes (Mereclar, D'Gran, etc.) know how the keys operate. Indeed, two lesser keys could be a fine bargaining chip in negotiations wiht, say, D'Gran.

"I haven't read the whole adventure module yet so I probably haven't come across it yet."
I recommend you read it at least 3 times before starting. ;)

Andorax
Still here? Wow.
(1/30/03 7:35:08 am)
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Re: keys and altars
checkstop, IMC my PCs found out from the Evil Druid between the Air and Fire temples. They weren't much for questioning clerics (much to their detriment, and my continuing dismay).

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

checkstop
Looking around
(1/30/03 2:58:56 pm)
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Re: keys and altars
"I recommend you read it at least 3 times before starting." - I knew someone would say that! Good advice :\

"They weren't much for questioning clerics" - Geez that's an understatement IMC.

Oh well I guess I have some reading to do! Thanks!


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