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Dovan Mageknight
Looking around
(1/26/03 3:45:01 am)
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half-shade on the plane of fire?
Ok ive got a half-shade player im DM'ing through and the group is real close to the fire node.
The stupid half-shade can lower light at will to get sneak attacks(hes playing a rouge).
My question is this on the Fire plane wouldnt it be very very bright?
With evey thing realy well lit?
How would this affect a half-shade on the fire plane?
Any ideas?
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Killiak 
Here for a while
(1/26/03 3:47:49 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
Since it's on another plane it means that he doesn't neccesarily have control here. It all depends on wether the controller of the plane (a God and in this case, Imix) allows others to change circumstances. It's all in the Manual of the Planes. Your the DM, so use it well  
Edited by: Killiak at: 1/26/03 4:54:45 pm
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Grumgarr
Here for a while
(1/27/03 6:57:55 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
...and don't a shade's powers come from it's link to the demiplane of Shadow?
The Nodes are pretty inaccessible - there need be no connection to the Shadow-plane, which means shade-boy's powers could be 'legitimately' toned down or negated.
It's your call - if your planar cosmology says Nodes Not Connected to Ethereal/Shadow Plane, then that's the way it is.
Grumgarr - who listens carefully to bleating players, then calmly says 'uhh...no'
Edited by: Grumgarr at: 1/27/03 6:59:19 am
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Lobo Lurker
Here for a while
(1/27/03 7:44:19 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
But if you are going to nix his powers, you've got to be consistant. I.E., no illusions that tap the power of shade (shades, shadow evocation, shadow walk, etc...).
Things to keep in mind... and anyway, what's the big deal. The major NPC's (who by now know about the PCs tactics) should be able to cast light/daylight to negate the shade rogue's abilities. And Imix, as an elemental, is immune to critical strikes (and therefore sneak attacks), is he not?
LL 
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Dovan Mageknight
Looking around
(1/28/03 1:24:33 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
Yes but,he can lower the light as a ability so if some one casted light on him couldnt he just lower the light the next round agian?
He argues that his darkness Over takes light because its a ability coming from him.
But as far as im conserned magic light over takes any kind of normal darkness,right?
So if some one with a glowing magic wepon or a light spell cast on them selfs walks into his darkness he should be seen right?
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Grumgarr
Here for a while
(1/28/03 2:55:02 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
Looks like the Curtain thread led to this discussion of a shade's abilities, so here's my 2cp:
Sounds to me like this player (it is just this one player, right?) is a rules-lawyer-type, and would argue white was black if it benefited his character.
As DM your decisions are correct - yes, we can make mistakes, but he shouldn't be arguing with you about rulings, certainly not during the game. It's your call what creature-type the curtain is, whether it has darkvision, blindsight, purple-wellie-boots or whatever.
If it doesn't say so in the book, that's not your players' business - the book isn't running the game, you are.
Even published material has holes in it where the DM has to make a call - it's your call (YOU run the game) and your call is right.
I don't know exactly how the shade's abilities work, but as stated by Andorax, lowering existing light would make normal darkness - not magical darkness, and creatures with Darkvision won't care.
Don't be bullied into anything. You're providing (well, mostly you anyway) the entertainment for the group: your decisions need to be respected, by everyone. Arguing over your decisions during the game is NOT acceptable. Establish with the player exactly how the ability works - and spank him if he whines at your ruling 
Grumgarr
Edited by: Grumgarr at: 1/28/03 2:59:36 am
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justind dm
Here for a while
(1/29/03 5:56:24 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
I can't tell without reading the text of the class/race, but whether the lowering of the light is just an effect centered on the Half-Shade or an area affect that lowers the light in a certain radius, I beleive it should NOT lower magical lighting. Think what would happen if some of the monsters who's weakness comes from such spells as Daylight where able to produce this affect at will. They would then be immune to that weakness. But again, I would really need to read the written text that the player used to create this PC from.
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madfox
Still here? Wow.
(1/29/03 6:29:52 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
Quote:
The stupid half-shade can lower light at will to get sneak attacks...
I am not much of an expert on shades, but what does the amount of light has to do with sneak attack? The only time a character loses his dexterity is in absolute darkness. Unless a shade can see in absolute darkness, he cannot make sneak attacks either because the opponent has got concealement. If there is even a sparkle of light, the people have concealement, but they still have got their dexterity bonus to AC.
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Dovan Mageknight
Looking around
(1/30/03 1:02:10 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
The shade is on pg#314 of the Fogotten Realms book.
A shade can lower the light by 10% a level hes 13th level so thats 130% so its pich black and Shades can see in the dark,60ft darkvision.
And can make it up to 100ft around him.
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Grumgarr
Here for a while
(1/30/03 2:24:36 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
Quote:
A shade can lower the light by 10% a level hes 13th level so thats 130% so its pich black and Shades can see in the dark,60ft darkvision.
Well, big deal...if all he's doing is making it dark - not making magical darkness, no monster is really going to care, cos most of them have darkvision too.
And if shades only have darkvision, as opposed to the ability to see in magical darkness (I'm sure someone said they can) then....so?
I haven't checked my FRCS but it seems to me there are two gaping flaws in the 'I make it dark, then sneak attack everything' tactic.
1. If the shade's darkvision works, so does everybody else's, so he's not invisible - he hasn't even got concealment against anyone with darkvision. (+scent/tremorsense/blindsight...)
2. If he creates magical darkness (and it seems he doesn't) he can't see any better than anyone else - blind folk can't sneak attack.
Grumgarr - who still thinks a spanking is in order for whiny, munchkin, shade-playing, rule-twisters!
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madfox
Still here? Wow.
(1/30/03 3:51:46 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
Remember that most descriptions of monsters do not include dark vision, because their monster types have dark vision standard. Any outsider for example has got dark vision unless otherwise noted. With a character like that it is better to check out in advance which character has got dark vision and which not. It can be quite irritating, but since I am currently running a all dwarven campaign I am facing the same problem. What is worst though is that all the descriptive texts in publish scenario's assume a proper light source that lights the whole room. Which is quite silly under most circumstances.
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Siobharek 
Still here? Wow.
(1/30/03 5:47:43 am)
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Re: half-shade on the plane of fire?
The fire node is populated by giants (darkvision), a dragon (blindsight), and Imix and the half-elemental medusa (both immune to critical hits/sneak attacks). Basically, the half-shade can make it dark as much as he wants, it won't help him.
BTW, how does the rest of the party take to the darkness?
Siobharek
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