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Looking around
(1/28/03 8:25:02 pm)
Character Creation and tToEE
When making characters for the Temple campaign, what guidelines would you reccomend for allowing prestige classes, feats, ability scores, etc.

For ability scores, I always use point buy to assure relatively equal character power, but what would a good level of points be? I've noticed that many NPCs have weak stats, and others strong stats. What should be a range of numbers to shoot for. I think that high stats could easily unbalance the game.

What optional books should I use? Most of the bad guys use only the core rules, with the exception of the Doomdreamers. If the players use several options, they become significantly more powerful than the opposition.

Since I do not wish to modify the adventure unduly, what would DMs experienced with this module recomend for ability scores and optional rules found in the splatbooks, for example.

C Galadrim
Looking around
(1/28/03 9:18:35 pm)
Re: Character Creation and tToEE
I haven't started RToEE with my group yet, but I have been running games ever since second edition came out and there is one thing I have come to learn through the years.

There is always a way to beat your players.

I'm not saying that to sound mean. I try to make each player enjoy the game as much as possible at all times. But, no matter what crazy class or skill or spell your party comes up with, there is always a way to counteract it. You're the DM, and it's your job to find out what that is and make use of it. From reading around here, I can tell that alot of the other guys are fair minded and try their best to keep it that way. But, you sometimes have to remember that you control what happens. If you want a certain item or NPC to show up in your campaign to deal with a player advantage that is being used to break the game, you can do it without question.

As a more specific answer to your question, feel free to let your players have fun. I let any book that can be involved in my campaign world be used. For the game I am about to start, in the Realms, all classes are able to be used. Only restriction is that they be of good or neutral alignment. But, giving them the freedom to experiment allows them to enjoy the game much more. If for some reason they find something that starts causing some trouble, it's sometimes just as fun to find a way to counteract that thing.

Still, all extra material is optional. If you feel some classes might just be too much trouble to work in, or you feel that something will put one player too far above the rest, make a ruling. Other than that, just have fun.

Here for a while
(1/28/03 10:25:25 pm)
Re: Character Creation and tToEE
IMC, and in a few others here, the players can use the splatbooks. However, not everything in the splatbooks is balanced so you need to check every PrC before allowing it. I have rarely modified NPCs with the splatbooks, and the PCs still had a hard time at proper ELs. Also, using the splatbooks allows you to modify summoned creatures with the pseudonatural template in Tome & Blood.

Cordo Crowfoot
Here for a while
(1/28/03 11:07:09 pm)
Re: Character Creation and tToEE
Guidelines for prestige classes, feats... That is really campaign specific. If you are concerned about balance, maybe you want to personally go through a lot of the material on the net about what classes, feats, and spells are considered too powerful and rule them out for your own campaign. But depending on your players, you might have some unhappy people if you toss the books out the window.

PROs class books:
1) It gives more variety to the game.
2) More options for players to customize characters.

CONs class books:
1) Definite increase in power levels if your players min/max aggressively. Several people here who have given carte blanche as far as all the class books go have said they later regretted it.
2) RttToEE was written with just the core rules in mind.

What I did in my own campaign was tell the players to talk to me on an individual basis about prestige classes and feats from other areas. I'm kind of trying to strike a balance between keeping things interesting (a large variety of powers) without sacrificing the balance (letting the players know I keep veto power).

Ability scores. I used point-buy with 32 points. I think the campaign lethality level is high enough to consider it a challenging campaign. Starting ability scores will matter less and less as characters increase in level, but it will give them a nice boost at the lower levels until they start to feel comfortable with their characters.

Here for a while
(1/29/03 2:03:35 am)
Game balance
IMC, it was roll 4d6, add the highest three. You get one "@#%$" roll, which you can re-roll.

For the most part i don't allow splatbooks, as i don't like them and don't think they're ballanced. They got their name for a reason. :) I use all Malhavoc products, though.


Here for a while
(1/29/03 4:42:39 am)
Re: Game balance
I run a game in the ForGodsSakeYouMustBeJoking Realms :)
Realms material (rightly in many cases) is seen to be a bit over-powered. I've had to house-rule a few things (new spells and magic items) to keep it in hand.

I allow all class splatbooks, plus Magic of Faerun, plus PsiHB, plus Malhavoc's ITCK - there's a lot to keep track of.

My advice - read whatever books you want to allow carefully beforehand. There are some prestige classes, spells and magic items that radically empower a character - I can't list them all, but IMO the main offender in terms of poorly worded and badly-balanced bits is the Defenders of the Faith splatbook.

Balance-wise DoTF includes several 'broken' PrClasses, spells and items (mostly due to poor wording). And sadly there's been no 'official' errata to clear this up. It's a house-rule free-for-all.

If you allow PCs to 'shop' on the open market for anything in the books, there are troublesome items: if you have control of what they get, items like Armour of Command or Speed won't be an issue. The same goes for spells - be careful of some Cleric spells in DoTF - some of them are clearly superior to all other cleric spells of that level. (I recommend making Brambles and Spikes Druid-only - I don't see why these were ever listed as cleric spells, except that the book is aimed at clerics, not druids).

Even with access to all this, my group have still been challenged by the bad guys (who got a few choice spells, but no other tweaking - even a few from the Book of Vile Darkness, which the PCs don't have access to).
And they're a high-stat (rolled using a very forgiving sytem) group.
So long as you've read >whatever< beforehand, and considered its impact, you should be able to run RttToEE using >everything< and still make your players work for victory.

Grumgarr - who still curses Wizards for DoTF - AND for not errata-ing the damned thing!

Here for a while
(1/29/03 10:00:47 am)
Re: Game balance
Our group has been happy with the: 4d6 throw out low die (x6), three times, pick highest set, rearrange at will method. Depending on the campaign, we also sometimes set a minimum (or maximum) total ability modifier bonus, which hovers around +3. You can re-roll all three sets if you have none above this limit.

I allow anything from MP or the splatbooks after I appove it first (they just tell me).

RTEE is just so deadly though, you're not going to have trouble 'challenging' them even if you don't retool the baddies to have access to the same material. I'm adding BoVD for flavor mostly, but don't find I have the time to really do a good job incorporating the splats for them myself. I do steal bits and pieces of things posted here though. I believe Infiniti2000 is doing this for HC, so keep an eye out for his retooled NPCs.

Group Editing & Authoring Support
flexible campaign management for the web
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Here to stay
(1/29/03 10:39:17 am)
Re: Game balance
"I believe Infiniti2000 is doing this for HC, so keep an eye out for his retooled NPCs."

Indeed I am! I've updated the Splat Book Changes thread with both ZansForCans's Jaroo and mine because it was disappearing around page 11.

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