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shidara
Here for a while
(1/30/03 8:00:11 am)
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Character Wealth
IMC, my players feel tha they are below where they should be on the "standardized wealth table" in the DMG.
I have requested copies of their equipment lists and will tally things up, but I wonder if anybody else has encountered this problem - the idea that there's less treasure than there ought to be.
Another thing I've noticed is that certain classes seem to get left out in the treasure mix - Monks, Rogues, and to some extent Rangers and barbarians. There's very little "light" armor,and a LOT of the expensive treasure is Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric only.
Any thoughts on this? I'm currently reviewing each encounter to see if it matches up with what the DMG says that EL's treasure should be and augmenting if I feel it's necessary. So far, after loking through a few Outer Fane encounters, it looks like they're fairly balanced across several ancounters; for example, Chymon's treasure is WAAAAAy over an EL14's suggested treasure value, but most of the magic stuff is Scrolls. However, the 6 Ogres a few rooms away are waaay below their EL's value, so I call it a wash between the two.
Basically, I'm just fishing for thoughts on character wealth, and how RttToEE keeps pace with the characters.
Shidara
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Taxman66
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(1/30/03 9:18:34 am)
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Re: Character Wealth
A lot of the treasure is in bulky masterwork armor and to a lesser (bulky) extent weapons. Are the PCs gathering all that stuff up? If not maybe they could get a clue bat... Some official or other bigwig could lament about not having enough high quality equipment (and perhaps pay a bit of premimum for it). The PCs could get a bag of holding...
In any case a lot of the found treasure (particularly for those classes you mentioned) needs to be reinvested. Also there is definitly an advantage/reason to have the craft feats in this module as well.
Taxman
"It takes an uncommon mind to think of these things, Hobbes." - Calvin
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 Infiniti2000
Here to stay
(1/30/03 11:28:49 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Character Wealth
"...for example, Chymon's treasure is WAAAAAy over an EL14's suggested treasure value, but most of the magic stuff is Scrolls."
I disagree. It is in fact very close. Here's an analysis.
EL14 = 17,000gp
Dragon = x2 = 34,000gp
Money: 100,000cp = 1,000gp; 50,000sp = 5,000gp; 2,000gp
Six emeralds 1,000gp each = 6,000gp
Wyvern statue = 2,000gp
Coffer = 100gp
Two candles of truth 2,500gp each = 5,000gp
Disintegrate = 1,650gp; Eyebite = 1,650gp; Cloudkill = 1,125gp; Summon Monster V = 1,125gp; Ice Storm = 700gp; Polymorph Self = 700gp; Spell Turning = 2,275gp; Domination = 1,125gp; Hold Monster = 1,125gp; Teleport w/o Error = 2,275gp
Total = 34,850gp
The only thing this doesn't count is the armband of reduction, for which I don't have a price or more details. I don't think it's way over, unless you forgot to double it for the dragon, but it is over a little.
"However, the 6 Ogres a few rooms away are waaay below their EL's value, so I call it a wash between the two."
Actually, the ogres are way above. Each has a 3,000gp suit of full plate armor (large size) and a 350gp (at least, dunno the real cost) huge masterwork greatsword, which makes it a total of 20,100gp, which is closer to EL15 than EL7. But, that's why is it EL7 instead of EL6. Also, there's little chance the PC's can sell the stuff for a reasonable price and it will be difficult to transport (who in Verbobonc is going to want to buy all that large armor and huge greatswords?).
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shidara
Here for a while
(1/30/03 11:43:52 am)
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Re: Character Wealth
whoops, forgot that dragons are 2x Standard. Kinda lame that all he's got are scrolls (albeit high-level scrolls).
Another thing: How long does it take chymon to get to the secret hatch under the treasure?
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benhamtroll
Here to stay
(1/30/03 3:45:12 pm)
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Re: Character Wealth
Just remember that is 3E you can have just about anything you want MADE in a city like Verbobonc. Sell off the scrolls, weapons, etc. and hire someone to craft that sword you always wanted, etc.
There's no business like gnoll business |
Siobharek 
Still here? Wow.
(1/31/03 1:41:11 am)
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Re: Character Wealth
IMC, the party set up a posse of gnomes to help them ferry off the MW items to Verbobonc. One of my players is an attorney who is specialized in corporate law. He convinced me that you could easily create a system in which the party got 65% of the cost of items rather than the standard 50%.
I didn't understand half of what he told me, but as I trust him (I kinda have to: If ever I'll need a lawyer, he's my guy) I let them go ahead. Also, that's another weak spot for me to exploit.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Grumgarr
Here for a while
(1/31/03 3:08:47 am)
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Re: Character Wealth
Quote:
How long does it take chymon to get to the secret hatch under the treasure?
Yep - it's a puzzler - even with a Burrow speed to get through all those coins (and I don't recall if Reds have a Burrow speed), getting that hatch open (I'm picturing a submarine-type deal here) will be impossible - okay a dragon might get cut some slack but it's still a lot of weight, and there's no way you can open the hatch and not have thousands of coins spill down into the secret room. I'm pretty sure this wasn't the intent.
I extended the permanent magic-traps in the secret room to include a teleport 'trap' - a glowing insubstantial rune floats near the bottom of the coin pile - anyone touching it is transported to the middle of the secret room. (Once activated, the rune vanishes for 'think-of-a-number' - this for Chymon's escape, and mystery when a PC suddenly vanishes.)
A second rune rests near the underside of the hatch - this one transports anyone touching it to position of the first rune (or the nearest open space).
Getting to this rune is tricky from the secret room, as it's hemispherical and the shaft begins at the apex of the hemisphere, requiring either flight or spider-climb (or a massive high jump) to reach the rungs.
The 'Dragon Runes' allowed me to retain the 'vanishing dragon' effect without the illogic of the 'open the buried hatch' scenario.
On the subject of treasure - if your party can't craft their own items (which means allowing them the time to do so - I'd guess at least two substantial craft-sessions) then the treasure might be a >little< behind average, but there are some substantial treasures they might have overlooked or missed. The adventure doesn't suffer for lack of PCs bristling with shiny magic items.
They don't really need uber-gear, and can get good magic weapons from spell-effects by the time they need them, probably (though the Bebilith in the CRM might be too early).
If they can craft stuff, the half-price effect means they'll do fine.
My group collected a lot of MW weapons for sale, and I let them offload the lot - this made up a lot of the treasure they would otherwise be missing - if your group aren't collecting these valuables because 'they're not conveniently light and portable', they'll get less treasure.
Treasure doesn't have to be gold and magic items. Make them work for it a little.
Grumgarr - who described the rune-teleport experience as being engulfed and swallowed whole by a glowing draconic maw
Edited by: Grumgarr at: 1/31/03 3:13:48 am
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Infiniti2000
Here to stay
(1/31/03 7:22:04 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Character Wealth
That's quite a neat idea, Grumgarr, I think I'll use it. The flavor with the giant draconic maw is cool, too.
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shidara
Here for a while
(1/31/03 8:17:40 am)
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Re: Character Wealth
great advice Grumgarr - I think I'm gonna use that rune system . . .
As for Character Wealth, yes, they've been collecting up all the masterwork items. They just haven't taken a trip to Verbobonc recently. I added up the value of the stuff they have collected, and it's over 50,000 gp. They should be fine.
I'm having my players email me a list of all of their equipment & magical items - I want to see if they really are under-equipped. So far, one character has done so, and he is just about right for his level. Hopefully, this will illustrate to them that they are not under-equipped.
Shidara
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Infiniti2000
Here to stay
(1/31/03 8:24:56 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Character Wealth
I think I read somewhere that in figuring out character wealth you should add in 50-75% of items that the character created himself. So if a PC has two scrolls worth 1000gp each, one he scribed, he would have 1750gp wealth, not 2000gp. The 50% is obviously the cost of materials, and the other 25% is supposed represent lost XP or something.
I'm gonna do the same as you, shidara, just before my players head into the CRM.
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