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Hammerhead
Looking around
(2/5/03 7:45 pm)
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RttToEE with two characters. How to?
I would like to run this adventure, but, unfortunately, I only have two players that can regularly make sessions. Is it possible to run this adventure with only two characters, and a non-massive amount of NPCs? A word about my players, first:
My first player is a devout hack and slasher who likes to play tank fighters with insane ability scores and prestige classes. His skills at puzzle-solving, role-playing, and thinking in general are not impressive. He likes to kill evil people and get treasure.
My other player is a good role-player and very creative. He enjoys combat, but becomes bored with Hack and Slash. He is also very inexperienced. He prefers versatile fighter-types (like Rangers).
None of them is skiled tactically.
I plan on trying to emphasize all the role-playing oppurtunities in the CRM and Moathouse, all the betrayal, etc.
Should I use an NPC to bolster their numbers and strength?
Any advice on how to make sure they survive, and how to handle the numerous hold, T touch, etc. spells found in this module?
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Zorlag
Here for a while
(2/6/03 12:37 am)
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You need a cleric in a party and arcane caster is very good addition as well. Maybe couple of mercenary NPC's to accompany your players? This adventure is so hard that I can't see two people going through it without help... 
Z.
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ZansForCans 
Here for a while
(2/6/03 12:57 am)
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See LostSoul...
LostSoul is running such a campaign. Check his thread out here:
pub58.ezboard.com/fokayyo...2385.topic
There was also a much older thread (you'd have to go hunting for it) that was hashing this out before as well. It could have been LS before his campaign started, but I could be wrong...
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Elisyum
Looking around
(2/6/03 4:10 am)
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Re: RttToEE with two characters. How to?
Actually I have the exact same problem, but I have been lucky enough to have mature players with good roleplaying skills. So they each play two characters. It seems to be working out alright. They just made it to Hommlet. I have a log on deadjournal.
www.deadjournal.com/~dmdave
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HeresDaryl
Here for a while
(2/6/03 5:50 am)
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Re: RttToEE with two characters. How to?
Maybe have your PCs hired by a church to accompany one of their priests on a 'fact finding' mission. Make the priest a level or so higher than the PCs but design him as a bookish, nerdy, antisocial and completely non-militant type, who will require the intervention & protection of the PCs (both in combat & roleplaying situations!). He can provide healing, restorative magics and a chance of turning undead without encroaching on the player characters area of expertise or face-to-face time.
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Hammerhead
Looking around
(2/6/03 7:06 pm)
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re
Actually, I planned to give the PCs high ability scores and increase their starting level to 6th to compensate for their lower numbers. I was also thinking of introducing Fate Points to combat the "Save or Die" type spells like Hold Person and Slay Living.
I don't enjoy running more than one DM-PC, if even that. Also, rather than "giving" them NPCs, at 6th level they could take Leadership.
BTW, does anyone have the link or an inkling of the thread that discusses this earlier.
Thanks!
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Jonesjulia
Looking around
(2/11/03 2:12 pm)
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2 PCs
Heya. I was planning on running two PCs in this module in a month or so. This is my first DM and I, lucky enough, seem to have picked the hardest module around. Unfortunately I'm hooked on the story.
Anyhow I've come up with the same ideas you have so far. (6th level, high ability scores). I was thinking 90(6x15) ability points. What do people think? Too high? I'd rather play the monsters with better tactics if they start whooping up on everything than have to have them roll up new pcs every session.
Definitely keep this thread going if you can. I could use the help.
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thegreatbuddha11
Here for a while
(2/13/03 9:19 pm)
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Re: 2 PCs
Adding 2 levels [b]might[/b] not help. I'm not sure on the math with 2 PCs, but in a normal party, the higher-level PCs will gain less XP and will eventually fall back to "par" level-wise. With only 2 PCs, they might advance too fast though; again, I don't know the exact math involved right now and I am too tired to check (I've been up since 8:30 am tuesday morning. It's 11:21 now).
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ZansForCans
Here for a while
(2/13/03 11:41 pm)
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Back of the envelope...
A rough calculation, since I'm a numbers nerd at heart:
Let's start with the 'average' 4 PC party, starting at 4th level and 6,000 XP. By the time they get to the Fire Temple side of the CRM, the EL's average 9 and, presumably, such a party will also be about 9 there. Going from 4th to 9th nets you 30,000 XP. The party as a whole should have received 30k x 4 = 120 kXP.
From looking at the XP table, it looks like a party of average level 2 higher (say 6th rather than 4th) than another receives 2/3 to 3/4 (I'll just use 70% below) of the XP. Let's take that 120 kXP in 30k chunks to see if they get out of sync:
At 30k, the party of 4 all have around 13.5 kXP (6k + 7.5k), nearly 6th level.
At 30k * 70% = 21k, the party of 2 each have 25.5 kXP (15k + 10.5K), between 7th and 8th level. Both are still about 2 levels apart.
At 60k, the party of 4 all have around 21 kXP, at 7th level.
At 60k * 70% = 42k, the party of 2 each have 36 kXP, right at 9th level.
At 90k, the party of 4 all have around 28.5 kXP, right at 8th level.
At 90k * 70% = 63k, the party of 2 each have 46.5 kXP, right at 10th level.
At 120k, the party of 4 all have around 36 kXP, right at 9th level.
At 120k * 70% = 84k, the party of 2 each have 57 kXP, right at 11th level.
So, as long as that ~70% factor is about right, it should work out fine by the numbers with a party of 2 starting at 2 levels higher. If you take this another 120k further (near the end of the adventure for many folks), you find that the party of 2 is starting to pull away from that 2 level difference (it becomes >2.5), so keep that in mind. I didn't study the table long enough to see if the 70% starts heading down to compensate or not. On top of that, you'll have to decide whether the difference between 6th and 4th level characters is the same as the difference between 11th and 9th (i.e. do you want them to stay 2 levels ahead?).
What I'd worry about most without help from NPCs though is that the fights with large numbers of foes. Tactically, it becomes more difficult, with things like flanking being more likely against the party and with spellcasters less able to escape the fray for AoO free casting. Those are also the battles where the higher level characters are going to earn less than that 70% factor since the penalty steepens with decreasing CR. In these cases, make absolute sure you follow the XP advice on the first page of RTEE (about low CR awards) to avoid screwing the PCs out of needed XP.
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Thrommel
Can't leave now (mod)
(2/14/03 6:52 am)
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More advice
Here's another thing to consider: Hold Person.
One hold person spell has just wiped out 50% of your party, while in a normal group there are three other people there to soak damage, fend off attacks, and/or try to dispel the effect.
I would suggest you implement some sort of Fate Point system, because the consequences of blowing a save are much more dramatic when there are only two PC's.
I would suggest teaming them up with the Water Temple early on, giving them the missions of scouting the other temples, maybe make a play for the Air Temple since it seems weak, and then putting them in charge of the Fire Temple assault. Use mooks from the Water Temple to bolster the party with 'disposable' cannon fodder.
You'll need to do some extra work fleshing out the personalities within the Water Temple (play up the power struggle between the humans and the kuo-toa and Kelashein's megalomania). You need to initiate contact early -- have them recruited in Rastor, if not earlier.
This is essentially a variant of my 'running a lawful evil party through RttToEE' concept, and while it's not essential that they be LE, it's going to be really difficult if one of the PC's is a paladin.
You either want mercenary types, or a pair of PC's aligned with a bigger organization (Church of St. Cuthbert maybe?) who are sent on a deep cover assignment and have to use stealth and trickery.
The advantage to this approach is that your role-player gets to role play, while your tank still gets to bash skulls.
Good luck.
-Thrommel, who wonders if the tank is half empty or half full.
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Jonesjulia
Looking around
(2/17/03 6:47 am)
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thx
Actually that's a lot of help zans. I'll use that as a table to make sure my pcs are on track. So thanks. Thanks also to thrommel. I'll definitely institute a fate system and I was already pondering whether to use the temples against themselve so i'll just take your advice as the go ahead. I like "playing up the human vs. Kuo-toa conflict" idea a lot.
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