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Gruule The Axe
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(2/8/03 7:41 pm)
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How to handle training in the CRM?
My party is about to set out for Rastor and I'm wondering how people have handled training while the PCs are in the CRM? I don't want to slow things down by forcing them to go to Verbabonc every time someone goes up a level but I also want to maintain some realism. I'm toying with the idea of giving them magical trainign manuals that allow them to train themselves for new feats and abilities. I'd appreciate any feedback or insights you guys might have.

JLXC
Here for a while
(2/8/03 9:40 pm)
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Re: How to handle training in the CRM?
I ruled that the "Gods" of the world were helping the PC's as best they could (I created a mass of world-wide problems) which was allowing them to gain knowledge at an enormous rate.

Sometimes I went with 1 day for every 2 levels rounded up.
Sometimes I went for "Gain a level right now"
Time was short in my game, it got down to days. They didn't have time to level up normally.

So when the players bitched "Why aren't the other gods helping us?!?!" I responded "You want to give back those levels and go train? Now did they do you a favor?"

They always answered.. "Well I see your point!"

heh

YMMV

Do not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons,

for you are Crunchy & good with Ketchup

Killiak 
Here for a while
(2/9/03 2:22 am)
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Re: How to handle training in the CRM?
I just see it like this;
They are 4th level and all the fighting and talking they do is their training towards 5th level.

Ofcourse, if a character wants to take ranks in alchemy when he hadn't any before; that's gonna take some training

Siobharek 
Still here? Wow.
(2/9/03 2:28 am)
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Re: How to handle training in the CRM?
I took one hard look at the module, and then I introduced instant training: Once any characters who can level up get a chance to rest, they level.

It's sacrificing realism big time, but the alternative is horrible: In addition to leaving the area for item boosting/purchase, the PCs would also go away to train. There would be some overlap, but still...

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

smetzger
Here for a while
(2/10/03 8:47 am)
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No training
No training required for my players.

You hardly ever see characters training in fantasy films or literature.

Taxman66
Here for a while
(2/10/03 10:03 am)
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Re: No training
Actually you often do (e.g. Highlander [the orignal, and only one worth watching], Conan, etc...); However it is typically portrayed as an 'all at once' thing.

Taxman
"It takes an uncommon mind to think of these things, Hobbes." - Calvin

Siobharek 
Still here? Wow.
(2/10/03 1:11 pm)
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Re: No training
Yeah, but that's either training as "teaching the farm boy to become a legend", or it's training as "honing skills". And it's the latter aspect that would cover leveling up, but which might also be a continuing process where at some point the hero just has a little extra uumph to it, or the wizard's long studies in the light of the campfire results in a "Yes, that might work" - and poof, you've got fireball.

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

madfox
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(2/11/03 12:44 am)
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Re: No training
In my campaign I rarely use training and definitely for leveling up in a regular class. The experience points the characters gain is what constitutes training in my eyes. Besides the PCs are doing more then just sitting when they are resting. I am sure they also spend some of those hours training with each other. I do require the PCs to have at least one nights rest before they level and in general I don't allow people to level in the middle of a session. Though that has more to do with the fact that leveling takes up so much time and tends to disrupt the game flow. The only time I do require training is when people want to take levels in certain prestige classes for the first time or when they want to learn certain other specific feats, spells and skills. Though even that might be troublesome with this adventure. So in one my campaigns I tended to give them some room in this. In my other campaign I have mixed the Banewarrens in it and with that adventure training is less of a problem. Though I am not sure whether my players realize that...

ZansForCans 
Here for a while
(2/11/03 7:43 am)
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Re: No training
MC is nearly the same as madfox's in this regard. I do require wizards to follow the PHB rules (and time required) for spell acquisition outside of their auto two per level. I'm flexible about allowing them to split the study time up though.

Any changes in classes or PrC, special feats, skills, etc. must be RP'ed in so that it makes sense for the character in the context of their life right now. I look at this from the other way around from me as a DM allowing them time to expand their characters. Their characters have made certain decisions about how they're spending their next x months of life. If it happens to be in a dungeon, abandon mines, haunted forest, whatever, due to taking on the onerous responsibilities (as it were) of adventuring, that's going to reduce their options for expanding their career.



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Gruule The Axe
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(2/11/03 6:24 pm)
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Re: No training
thanks everyone for the input. there are some good kernels there for me to chew on.

one sticking point for me regarding the "no training" method is cash. I believe that one of the original intents of training was to help keep the players lean moneywise - are those of you who allow "no training" just ditching the cost of training or are you having the cost be eaten up, out of game, by the process? Not really a big deal, just curious.

I think I may use a combination of no training and self training where the PCs must take some time to focus on their training exclusively apart from other distractions allowing the "breakthrough" represented by new abilities, feats, etc. Maybe 1 day per class level? Or 1 day per charcater level? Of course they wouldn't be able to add a new class they don't already possess without having someone else train them in the fundamentals. How's that sound?

Thanks again for the ideas.

Gruule

ZansForCans 
Here for a while
(2/11/03 7:42 pm)
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Re: No training
Quote:
one sticking point for me regarding the "no training" method is cash. I believe that one of the original intents of training was to help keep the players lean moneywise - are those of you who allow "no training" just ditching the cost of training or are you having the cost be eaten up, out of game, by the process? Not really a big deal, just curious.


Well, first realize that requiring training, both time- and cost-wise, is the variant here from a rules perspective. So to keep things on par, if an adventure were 'perfectly' balanced, you'd probably have to up the treasure a tad to offset what you require for training--that is, if you want them on that 'balanced' PC level weath track... whatever that means ;)

That being said, I think the general consensus is that DMs are finding that their groups are, if anything, on the low side for treasure relative to the PC wealth track. Not super-low, just enough that the players occationally feel a little resource poor.

It feels that way IMC so far (I haven't done an audit yet), but we're only up through the moathouse and Hommlet. Perhaps it's the more deadly nature of the adventure, forcing more of the cash to flow to the churches, perhaps it's because there is a good portion locked up in masterwork, less portable items that parties are less apt to collect. It may depend on how 'scouring' your party ends up being.

But, speaking for MC, where we have no required dedicated training time or cost, I haven't found it to be a problem at all.


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madfox
Still here? Wow.
(2/12/03 1:59 am)
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Re: No training
Quote:
one sticking point for me regarding the "no training" method is cash. I believe that one of the original intents of training was to help keep the players lean moneywise - are those of you who allow "no training" just ditching the cost of training or are you having the cost be eaten up, out of game, by the process? Not really a big deal, just curious.


The training rules in the DMG are completely optional and the costs involved are no part of the treasure division in the DMG. Hence adding them is more likely to cause a disbalance then the other way.

Gruule The Axe
Looking around
(2/13/03 9:36 am)
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Re: No training
I guess I don't think of training as "optional". I'm fairly new to 3rd edition DMing and so a lot of my rules are conventional hold-overs from 1st ed. (that's right, he said 1st!).

thanks again for the input.
Gruule

errant42
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(2/13/03 6:55 pm)
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Re: No training
Here's my take: A person gains much more skill at something by -doing- it than by having someone -train- him. Sure, if a character wants an all-new skill or class, he should get some training on how to do it... but if Fred Fighter has enough XP to gain a level, and wants to gain it in the Fighter class, he should gain it. He's been gutting hobgoblins for the last several days, and doesn't need someone to tell him how. You can train all day long at the local Karate dojo, but until you get into a fight (or at least a full-contact tournament) and boot some head, you're not even going to be as good a fighter as your average street brawler who's never had a minute of formal training.

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