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gaelicsummer
Looking around
(2/12/03 1:14 pm)
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Help needed on impossible to kill character
I have a player whom i can't touch. He is a 10th level Wizard, he has an amulet of Non detection, plus some other gear. The problem is, (a) he is a dwarf, has like 90 hit points (20 con) and he uses rope trick to hide at night, and he says Non detection blocks all scrying. I am not looking to kill him neccisarily, just to be able to drop him would be nice. Again he uses rope trick, dimension door, and other defensive spells to keep himself alive, basically if the party gets into a scrape he will cast in order, Haste, fly,mage armor,shield, prot elements, etc etc, he has his minor globe of invulnerbility memmed, and 2 dim doors plus a teleport. I hit him with a dimensional anchor from a caster, and then he cast exp retreat and used fly and the haste to move all around the battlefield. Any ideas would be great.
Gaelic
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Abelard
Still here? Wow.
(2/12/03 1:19 pm)
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Re: Help needed on impossible to kill character
Dispel magic. Dispel magic. Dispel magic.
Also note that Nondetection is not infallible - you can beat it with a caster level check. This is true even of the amulet.
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Andorax
Still here? Wow.
(2/12/03 1:57 pm)
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Re: Help needed on impossible to kill character
A good grapple will solve 90% of your problems. D-Door? Teleport? It'll violate the weight limit. Haste? Great...that's one extra failed attempt to escape.
As for your rope trick...what Abelard said, plus a Dispel Magic, and you're dumping the Wiz out of his "hole in the air" and into a surprise round.
On the other hand, you may want to consider not being overly harsh. This is a character who has put a LOT of effort into self-defense. Every spell he's casting to protect himself is a spell that's NOT helping the rest of the party. I don't see a real issue here. What would happen if you had a fighter who got the best armor possible, and a shield, and did nothing in combat but go "total defense"...he'd be virtually untouchable through a sky-high AC, and he'd not be contributing. So what.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
Boden Blagden
Here for a while
(2/12/03 2:25 pm)
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Re: Help needed on impossible to kill character
Man if the wizard in my party spent the first few rounds casting defensive spells he would be casting for nothing. Combat in my game does last more than 10 rounds at best, and even then if the wizard spends half of it casting defensive spells part of the party might be dead and the wizard too maybe. Don't play the NPCs as dopes go after the wizard in combat. If he doesn't get those good defensive spells off right away he is screwed.
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Cordo Crowfoot
Here for a while
(2/12/03 4:45 pm)
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Re: Help needed on impossible to kill character
Quote:
D-Door? Teleport? It'll violate the weight limit.
You can't just target yourself and D-Door away when grappled? Isn't that one of the strengths of the spell since it only has a V component?
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Entropius
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(2/12/03 5:15 pm)
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D-Dooring while grappled
I suppose you can D-Door while grappled (or even while pinned) ... but, depending on what's grappling you, it might be hard. If the grappling character holds his action to "pound mage if mage starts casting a spell", it should be fairly difficult to cast. If the mage doesn't cast defensively, you should get an AoO on him. The damage from that attack, combined with the damage from the held action, would probably be enough to disrupt the spell (assuming a grappler with a weapon, or a nonhuman grappler). Plus there's another Conc check that you have to make just to cast while grappled...
At least that's how I assume getting hit multiple times while casting works: add up the damage.
(Has anyone had a druid make a habit of grappling while shifted? Methinks it could be quite nasty. What would Hedrack do if a dire bear nabbed him?)
As someone else pointed out, a few dispels could ruin this mage's day... or, for that matter, the summoned silenced air elemental would do the trick as well. Just have the air elemental set action to follow the mage (or partial-charge) if the mage moves.
Or you could combine the two and have the mage grappled by a silenced fighter/beastie. Ow.
-Entropius
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SIERK
Here for a while
(2/12/03 5:59 pm)
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Re: D-Dooring while grappled
Quote:
Haste, fly,mage armor,shield, prot elements, etc etc, he has his minor globe of invulnerbility memmed,
Okay, that's good for the first encounter of the day. What about the next encounter? And the one after that?
BTW, he casts mage armor in the middle of battle? What does he have left for offense? A couple fireballs and a handful of magic missiles?
How does he use his Minor Globe? If he's inside of it, all his buff spells will disappear.
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JLXC
Here for a while
(2/12/03 9:08 pm)
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Re: D-Dooring while grappled
Well some of the folks in the module can Scry, all high level clerics can use Greater Scry for hours. They can watch and wait for them to Go into the Rope Trick... then set up a REAL fun encounter to wait for the party.
Targeted Dispel Magic is powerful.
OR....
Since the PC is just playing his character to the best, he may actually be preventing the baddies from dropping in and killing them in their sleep all the time. Is this really bad? It may not be fair to the baddies, but this is about Smart Heroes braving the odds. I don't see why it's a problem really....
Do not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons,
for you are Crunchy & good with Ketchup
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setanta14
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(2/12/03 10:24 pm)
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Re: D-Dooring while grappled
Use an anti-magic shell, then send in some rogue/assassins to death and/or sneak-attack him to pieces... use the feats from song and silence like arterial strike and hamstring... that'll fix 'em!!!!! 
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bloodyhellman
Here for a while
(2/13/03 5:58 am)
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Re: Help needed on impossible to kill character
I had the same sort of problem: 2 chars of the group got all buffed up and the rest had little.
The answer for the baddies was to simply ignore those people and squash the rest of the group.
That is the problem with most defensive spells: they help out only one person. What about the rest of the party? A few fights of the wizard being untouchable with the rest of the group being cut to ribbons will have the other PC's having a serious talk with him.
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smetzger
Here for a while
(2/13/03 6:46 am)
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rope trick
Even if he has an amulet of non-detection, the Rope Trick can still be found. Detect Magic will find the Rope Trick (amulet won't help here).
Also, the amulet won't shield his friends so unless he is all alone he can be found through his buddies.
Multiple fights in the same day should go a long way to decreasing his power. Try to come up with reasons why the party needs to press on instead of holeing up.
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wolff96
Here to stay
(2/13/03 7:24 am)
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Re: rope trick
Quote:
Try to come up with reasons why the party needs to press on instead of holeing up.
Be careful not to railroad with that approach, though I agree it's a good idea if you can pull it off.
Easier, however, is to realize that Nondetection protects only it's target. Nothing prevents you from scrying the rest of the party.
Or you can show up at the last place they were seen and wander a bit with Detect Magic (which will show the Rope Trick's entrance, as someone else pointed out). Then gather the troops, dispel the Trick, and tear into the party. Even better, the fighter-types won't be sleeping in their heavy armor... MUhahahaha... 
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Kenmis
Here for a while
(2/13/03 9:07 am)
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Bags of holding
according to the spell description taking an extrademensional space into ANOTHER extradimensional space is "hazardous". I beleive it results in a huge explosion. Keep this in mind, especialy if the players have a bag of holding!
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JLXC
Here for a while
(2/13/03 9:37 am)
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Re: Bags of holding
Kenmis it's been ruled by WotC, although I don't have the exact post heh, that if you being your Extradimensional bag or backpack into the Rope Trick that it just prevents you from opening that bag or backpack while in the Rope Trick. It disables them for the duration within, which could be inconvenient. It doesn't blow up. They figured since Every party has them, and many use the rope trick, that it would make rope trick USELESS to every party out there. Just a thought.
Do not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons,
for you are Crunchy & good with Ketchup
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thegreatbuddha11
Here for a while
(2/13/03 9:14 pm)
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Re: Bags of holding
Keep in mind that the amulet functions as a 5th level caster (IIRC). It only gets a +5 on it's level check to avoid detection. Dunrat has even money on beating the amulet, and Hedrack would need to roll a 2 or above to beat it (He's a Cleric 14 IIRC).
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gaelicsummer
Looking around
(2/13/03 9:51 pm)
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Re: Help needed on impossible to kill character
Thanks for all the advice. My main problem as a DM is that i get adversarial with my players, that a BAD flaw, but i try to deal with it the best i can. I no longer want to kill him, he does think he is the "gift" to the party, so i will ignore him, and as someone put it, when all he does is cast for himself, and the party gets wiped, but him, i think that PEER PRESSURE will help the situation.
Thanks again for all your posts, i appreciate it.
GaelicSummer
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bloodyhellman
Here for a while
(2/14/03 6:21 am)
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Re: Help needed on impossible to kill character
I too have that flaw. That being said be careful not to metagame: remember the monsters will not know what the wizard is up to until they try an attack or two (or with spellcraft watching him cast). If it is futile trying to hit him then even a low intelligence monster will give up about on attack 2 and turn to someone easier to hit.
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Entropius
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(2/14/03 8:44 am)
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The ToAC has reconnaissance too...
{the monsters will not know what the wizard is up to until hey try an attack or two}
Well, for a completely new batch of beasties, or for most of the guys in the CRM, this is true. ... but once Hedrack takes notice (or gets report from clerics fleeing the PC's), their standard tactics will probably be well-known. Your beasties (the ones in the OF are intelligent) could either go straight for the mage, supported by dispel magics and counterspells (no fly/haste/improved invis for you!) or, as others have suggested, just ignore him and smack around the other PC's.
Seems like Chymon could be the best beastie to scare this mage. She can see through invisibility, and can catch (and badly smack around) a flying mage with ease. (Chasing him into range of the lightning towers could get interesting unless he has a globe of invulnerability up...). Of course, Chymon is just scary, period. I can just see the look on a 7th level party's face when their mage clairvoyances the Fire Door... would that require a save vs. Frightful Presence? 
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Killiak 
Here for a while
(2/14/03 10:23 am)
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Re: The ToAC has reconnaissance too...
Yes, I think it would , and another +4 to the DC because of the shock MWUAHAHAHA
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Kolvin Dragonsbane 
Here for a while
(2/18/03 4:38 pm)
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Re: The ToAC has reconnaissance too...
Are you aware that Non-Detection has a fairly costly component?
Diamind dust.
So keeping it up every day can be a bit costly.
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