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White Chocolate zZz 
Here for a while
(2/12/03 1:40 pm)
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Edited into a vague and half-done campaign log
Yes! The outer fane doors!

It takes a greater key of a particular element to open the door, could a master key or a knock spell do this too?

I made knock spells work, but then the door goes back up in 3 rounds as stated.

Edited by: White Chocolate zZz  at: 2/22/03 6:59:05 pm
ZansForCans 
Here for a while
(2/12/03 2:00 pm)
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Re: The Doors
Although the adventure specifically says a greater key, I can see where you could have a master key open them as well, or perhaps only the two door of the greater keys which it is composed of.

But, I can't imagine why you'd want to let knock work. This kind of defeats the one of the main purposes of the CRM trek. I don't think that was intended, if that's what you're asking...


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Andorax
Still here? Wow.
(2/12/03 2:00 pm)
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Re: The Doors
I don't allow Knock to work...as for the Master Key, I've an odd approach.

I kept track of which two Greater Keys were used to make the Master Key, and I allow the Master Key to continue to function as both Greater Keys. Others have expressed their opinion that it's a "master" key for a reason, and can open anything a Greater Key can.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

White Chocolate zZz 
Here for a while
(2/12/03 6:25 pm)
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Re: The Doors
As for why I allowed knock to work: The door does go back up, forcing them to cast knock again. One of the PCs made a wand of knock which is thoroughly frustrating in other situations, and I'm trying to use it up. The group's advanced to average level 9, and they also have earned enough components for a master key, yet won't complete it. There is no way the door to the Inner Fane will be opened by knock, though.

smetzger
Here for a while
(2/14/03 11:22 am)
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Knock the Doors
Well, since the doors go up and down, more like a portcullis, and the doors are a bit more than Arcane locked, I would rule that Knock doesn't work.

Entropius
Looking around
(2/14/03 5:01 pm)
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Another consideration...
...is that, at the Fire Door at least (which is often the first one encountered by the PC's), opening the door at level 7 or so might lead to a TPK. Possibly a deserved TPK, if they just waltz up to the door... still, Chymon would be less than amused, and probably ginsu the party with some combination of breath, invisibility, and true strike + power attack. (True strike is, in effect, +1 to hit and +19 to damage... imagine a 2d8+29 bite attack!)

At the very least I'd rule that the doors were created by the First (or Hedrack), and require a caster level check for Knock to work. Theoretically a 7th or 8th level PC would have a chance to pass (8th level wizard vs. The First: 20%), but they'd probably give up after the first failed attempt.

-Entropius

White Chocolate zZz 
Here for a while
(2/14/03 6:02 pm)
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That reminds me...
I have a game sunday, two members of the group decided to go through the earth door. Why? Because i gave Tessimon a +6 periapt of wisdom, which somehow made it into the hands of the PCs, then came to Hedrack via the belly of a Fiendish Dire Lion. Now they're trying to get it back by locate object.

They both cast improved invisbility (10th level bard, 8th level wizard) before running out onto the bridge. However, the undead minotaur the bard keeps :rolleyes came with them just in case the door needed bashing. It looked a lot smaller from far away.

They knock the door, run in, the earth elemental comes alive and moves towards the equally slow moving minotaur. The bard says "minotaur, fall down", figuring that the elemental wont attack the minotaur if its just lying there. The two party members start to run up the northern hall, and this is where i left off.

I'm trying to think of preparations. If Hedrack was scrying, all he saw was a minotaur run through the door, would he care? I'm not sure if the elemental would just tear the minotaur apart, lying there. Knowing the party, they'll see the guards in area 17(?) standing around and feel the need to fireball the lot of them.

Entropius
Looking around
(2/14/03 7:47 pm)
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The Earth Elemental's reactions...
The EEE wouldn't be fooled by invisibility, improved or otherwise... while the MM doesn't mention it directly, I would assume that such a creature could feel the vibrations in the ground and would effectively have blindsight with respect to motion touching the ground. YMMV.

The elemental (BTB, anyway) would attack the minotaur, since its only direction is to pound anything not wearing EEE/Tharizdun symbols. Depending on how far the party ran up the hall, they might be too far away for it to catch (or you may want to rule that it can no longer sense them once they get out of the dirt in its room and onto worked stone.

If Hedrack was scrying on the room, he probably wouldn't be alarmed if the elemental simply beat the snot out of the minotaur (shouldn't take it more than one round) and went back to sleep. If he saw it chase after something up the hallway, he might be a little more suspicious. (Why is Rocky running around that way instead of pounding the minotaur?) If it actually swings at a PC, he would almost certainly deduce the presence of an invisible foe.

The PC's seem a bit low to have any hope of challenging Hedrack (who they're looking for anyway). Between him and the assassins in 17, who will hear the fireball on the guards at least and have a shot at spotting the characters through invis, it sounds like both of them are going to get splattered. The only thing going for them is that neither of the assassins or Hedrack happen to have a detection spell memorized, so even if they're alerted, they can't do much to the PC's directly unless Hedrack correctly guesses their location and fires off his dispel.

If Hedrack is canny enough, he could use his prepared [i]summon monster iii[/i] to summon a fiendish dire bat, which has blindsight ... the PC's would make paste out of it, but doing so would reveal their position (drawing a dispel or, worse, a flamestrike, from Hedrack.) If they didn't attack it, it would just float over their heads and serve as a position-marker.


-Entropius

Infiniti2000
Here quite a while
(2/15/03 7:02 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: That reminds me...
"Because I gave Tessimon a +6 periapt of wisdom..." :eek I hope that wasn't done lightly!

The EEE is stupid (INT 6) but not mindless. It should roar really loudly then rip the minotaur to shreds. I'm sure it also heard the PC tell the minotaur to fall down.

You will have to try very hard not to kill the two PC's. Otherwise, they are dead for sure. They have zero chance to survive if they actually encounter Hedrack.

"If Hedrack was scrying, all he saw was a minotaur run through the door, would he care?"
An undead minotaur?! Of course! You bet your ass he'd care, and he'd find and kill/capture whoever's running the minotaur. If the PC's are stupid enough to fireball the guards, they deserve to die for their greed and stupidity.

If you are feeling really nice, have Varachan meet them first and tell them that their presence has been detected and reported to the leader of the Outer Fane and to leave immediately before anyone can identify them!

Entropius
Looking around
(2/15/03 8:30 am)
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Re: That reminds me...
{"Because I gave Tessimon a +6 periapt of wisdom..." I hope that wasn't done lightly!}

That's what I thought at first too... but I suppose Tess can just use the altar to make whatever blastalicious goodies she wants (is it 1/week or 1/month?)

That begs the question, how loud exactly can an elemental roar? Physically, I'd probably think that it could roar loud enough to wake up everyone in half of the Outer Fane and probably break a few windows. Str 33, Con 21... yeah.

Good point about Hedrack... actually, he'd know for sure (I wasn't thinking properly last night :( ) that there were invisible intruders if he was scrying... since there's no way a mindless undead minotaur could get past the door. Nobody'd entrust one with a key and it couldn't be blessed since it can't speak (assuming it's a zombie or skellie)

I do see a possible way out, though. Varachan's got a [i]crystal ball[/i], and Hedrack probably knows it; what if Heddy gave Varachan the job of scrying the room to see if the PC's enter? He would see the ruckus in Rocky's room, possibly infer the presence of invisi-people, and could probably confirm that with [i]detect thoughts[/i]. If the PC's fail their will saves, he might discover that they're hunting Hedrack, and may rush to warn them off... if he could find any way of doing so that didn't put them at risk.

White Chocolate zZz 
Here for a while
(2/22/03 7:07 pm)
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Re: That reminds me...
OK, Hedrack, seeing the minotaur coming, has told the guards at area 15 to watch for movement to the south, should anything get past the Earth Elemental. If the battle goes poorly, they are to retreat back to hedrack's quarters and alert him. The assassins are now in area 17 looking out the peepholes into area 16.

Hedrack is sitting in his room, reading, writing notes (you know, potential candidates for the champion), pretty confident in the guards and assassins stationed south of him. I'm expecting the PCs to easily make it to Hedrack's room.

The door's closed, so if the door opens with out a super special knock, he'll just whip around and cast blade barrier on the door. I'm not sure about battle plans against improved invisible foes, probably going to use true seeing once he sees the effects of someone in the room.


He's saving the contact medallion for thrommel if he has real trouble, or the spider eater riders if the PCs flee (dont remember who on here suggested that).

Infiniti2000
Here quite a while
(2/22/03 9:37 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: That reminds me...
Don't forget the forbiddance. It's possible neither will get inside the room. Either way, they will be an easy kill for Hedrack. Give the players my condolences, but hopefully their next characters will not be so greedy. If they do not get killed, you are way too nice. :)

White Chocolate zZz 
Here for a while
(2/22/03 9:48 pm)
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Re: That reminds me...
Forbiddance? Ah, thanks. I'll be nice and make the doorknob within the area of the spell. The damage from touching the door ought to dissuade them.

I figure if they die, with greed being the name of the game for some, they'll have the chance to be resurrected, tested for being a potential champion, then thrown into the forcecages until rescued, as what happened to a previous character.

White Chocolate zZz 
Here for a while
(2/25/03 4:24 pm)
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10-23's Game
I'm now doing all game meetings online, in mIRC. It's great to just type the room descriptions and play this like a MUD.

Tel Quessir, Elf Bard
Emanuel Iseneko, Human Wizard

The two party members use improved invisibility to tear the guards apart, then continue up to the door to Hedrack's room, where the periapt is being detected from. Both touch the door, both fail their will saves, unable to enter and saved from certain death.

Lovable Varachan used the crystal ball to figure out where they were going, and met them, sneaking them into the room with the infernal machine for a quick introduction and Q&A. I also had varachan give them a [scanned] map of the place (Edited with the secret doors removed) with annotations i've yet to give. Any suggestions what should/shouldnt be there?

The group learns that the Earth and Water temple have allied and are going to plan a final offensive to kill the group's leader (the bard, only one to survive throughout the entire adventure thus far [on a side note, it seems difficult to keep the adventure going if the original group is, albeit slowly, entirely replaced}). They opt to go back to the mines and face the certainly weaker foe.

(the first time they went by the assassins rooms they were invisible. Leaving visible, the assassins run out to report to hedrack, who contacts the spider eater riders). The two group members step out onto the earth bridge and see a few dozen elephant sized bees swooping around. They cast invisibility and run before being hailed with arrows.

The group meets back up with Kellial Unm (The half air elemental) and Malachite, (Hum Ftr) their hired soldier, in the Earth Bridge's common room. They head north, dealing with the rancor/render and making it to the cart tracks. They take the upper tracks, and are ambushed by the darkmantles. The rest of the group flees the darkness, moments later the Bard walks out humming to himself, a smug look on his face. Words are had.

The group continues to the bugbears, their combat goes as written. Except the messenger's useless since the Eeredik's now rampaging demon has killed all the other bugbears. Noticed one of the bugbear shamans isn't written up. No casualties for the group and we stopped the game there.

Edit: Trying to think of problems of giving a character multiple demonic additions. Only the face though.

Edited by: White Chocolate zZz  at: 2/25/03 8:14:58 pm
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