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Here for a while
(2/26/03 1:34 pm)
Elemental Creatures and turning evil
Can anyone tell me what affect the turning into an evil creature effect would have on a summoned elemental? Since they can't act independently would they still obey the commands of the caster?


Here to stay
(2/27/03 10:54 am)
Re: Elemental Creatures and turning evil
Elemental alignment is defined as ususally neutral. Therefore, the average elemental is not going to care if the summoner is evil or good. Specifically, without detect evil spell then how does an elemental know his summoner's alignment is evil?

However, if he's evil and is trying to summon a celetrial (say a Lantern Archon) then the spell simply fails, as the spell is a Good spell. IMC, when a good cleric attempts to summon an elemental and it turns out to be evil (because of the influence of EEE) then the spell fails and nothing arrives - a hazard of trying to summon elementals in the CRM (and other areas of EEE influence).

Here for a while
(2/27/03 12:30 pm)
evil stuff
That's an interesting interpretation, and according to a certain reading of the "tainted elemental" thing, it makes sense. If the summon spell, instead of going to fetch a generic Sentient Pile of Dirt, winds up attempting to fetch a Sentient and Evil Pile of Dirt, it may well fail.

The interpretation that I've seen most often (and the one that I use IMC) is that the summon spell fetches an ordinary elemental, which is then corrupted by the taint in the area. The elemental then becomes free-willed and (probably) attempts to chew on the party.

Random idea: possibly have the summoner of any elemental creature make a Charisma check "against the corrupting force" to maintain the elemental's personality.

Moathouse: DC 4
CRM: DC 6, +4 if in the temple of the same element as the elemental
Outer Fane: DC 10
Inner Fane: DC 15
Recovered Temple: DC 20
Node: DC 25


Here quite a while
(2/27/03 12:37 pm)
Re: evil stuff
That's an interesting idea, Entropius, although I'd consider making it an ability check; otherwise it favors sorcerers and to a lesser degree clerics over wizards. (Sorcerers by definition have a better charisma, and clerics usually have a decent charisma to facilitate turning.)

"Sentient Pile of Dirt" :lol

Here for a while
(2/27/03 1:05 pm)
ability checks
I thought about that (favoring sorcerers and clerics), but it'd be sad for this to be yet another generic "primary spellcasting score" benefit. Characters already focus almost exclusively on their prime casting stat and ignore the other two mental scores; it'd be nice to go against that, just a little.

I've occasionally toyed with the idea of having certain Will and Fortitude saves keyed to other abilities: it makes sense that a save vs. bestow curse and dominate (and maybe other things) should be keyed to charisma. Maybe some instant death attacks should be charisma too? (things that affect the soul directly without killing the body, like the "soul trap" effects of the stuff in the Tabernacle of Utter Darkness and Fungus-In-The-Box)

Yet another random question: are the doomdreamers immune to the nastiness in the ToUD?

{"Sentient Pile of Dirt"}

That's what they are. Little (or big) walking dirt clods.

I read one campaign log where someone had a small earth elemental familiar named Pete; it should have been named Peat instead. *groan*

Here for a while
(2/27/03 1:43 pm)
Evil DM here
IMC I've interpreted that if you summon something differing enough from your alignment the critter won't obey you or will try to misinterpret your commands. If an Elemental is summoned in this adventure it automatically will be on the side of the cultists.

Here quite a while
(2/27/03 1:51 pm)
Maybe a good or neutral cleric could attempt a turning check using positive energy to negate the corruption?

Even if you say that an elemental is on the side of the cultists, how does it know that the PC's are not cultists? That's way more complicated than just making the elementals self-serving and evil.

could be any DM
Looking around
(2/27/03 2:13 pm)
Summoned elemental creatures
I just read the module section on this last night. It specifically says that summoned elementals have no free will, so even if they are evil the spell works as normal. Called elementals are a different matter though.

Here for a while
(2/27/03 2:18 pm)
Re: Elementals
Oh they can tell, it's a magic thing (wonder if my PCs will buy that :b ). Something to do with the divine magic they radiate. No, I'm just a mean DM, I may make it differnet if they are summoned to face opposing elements, would an fire elemental pass up the chance to kill a water priest?

Edited by: bloodyhellman at: 2/28/03 5:53:57 am
Still here? Wow.
(2/27/03 3:40 pm)
Re: ability checks
Entropius, it doesn't relate to the original topic, but you might find this useful.

There is a variant rule that uses the Int (rather than Wis) modifier for any Will saves agains Illusion-type spells, and the Cha (rather than Wis) modifier for any Will saves against Enchantment-type spells.

This is based on the idea that while Will is usually a Wisdom thing, defeating Illusions requires Reason (Int), and defeating Enchantments requires Force of Personality (Cha).

YMMV, but it's worked well as a variant IMC.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Here for a while
(2/28/03 4:23 am)
Evil summons evil
This isn't directly related to the topic but it fits here well enough.

If an evil character summons an elemental who turns evil, what reaction would the newly turned elemental have toward the one who summoned it?

I'm thinking it would continue to obey it's summoner.

Here quite a while
(2/28/03 7:50 am)
Re: Evil summons evil
Why would it be different than with a good character? Beware monolithic evil, it does not work together, especially with respect to Big T.

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