Gold Community Okay -- Your Turn
    > Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil
        > Reincarnation questions
New Topic    Add Reply

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Author Comment
Entropius
Here for a while
(3/7/03 3:56 pm)
Reply
Reincarnation questions
I am way behind on posting logs--I'll try to update them later this weekend, but I have a quick question first.

The dwarf cleric of Moradin in my party was recently reincarnated as a satyr by Kella. I needed to introduce a new druid PC, so I had her be Kella's assistant who met the party on the road, after a horse that fled a battle in Nulb told her, via [i]speak with animals[/i], that the adventuring party got pounded there.

I've never used reincarnate before. The (vague) guidelines in the PHB say that he loses his old racial modifications and then gets +2 Con and Dex... so his net modification is +2 Dex and +2 Cha. (Does he lose the dwarven -2 Cha mod, since it's a mental score?)

Anyway, he gains lots of stuff from being satyrized: +4 natural armor, a butt attack, and 40ft movement. I worried that this could become unbalancing, so he and I decided that he could no longer wear metal armor as a satyr (which is more than made up for by his natural armor). He'll still have the best AC in the party once he gets a large wooden shield: +1 Dex, +2 shield, +4 [i]studded leather +1[/i]. (Next highest: human Pal5 with AC 20, and elven Ftr3/Rog3 with the same, mostly from her 19 dex.)

The way I read it, the critters-with-classes produced by reincarnation are unique in that they have an ECL of 0: the new satyr keeps his 5 cleric class levels, but doesn't get the satyr hit dice, BAB, or saves.

Is this correct? Has anyone else had reincarnated characters in their campaigns? How did it play out?

Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/7/03 4:03 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: Reincarnation questions
Dunno the rules...but, dwarf...satyr...what's the difference? :)

Entropius
Here for a while
(3/7/03 4:15 pm)
Reply
Well...
[quote]Dunno the rules...but, dwarf...satyr...what's the difference?[/quote]

Both are into drinking, but dwarves aren't as big into wenching as satyrs?

Thrommel
Can't leave now (mod)
(3/7/03 5:23 pm)
Reply
Re: Well...
This is really more of a rules question, but here goes...

1) Yes he loses the -2 penalty to Cha. All his racial mods and abilities go away and are replaced by the new form.

2) There's no ECL modifier. I think that's bogus, given the huge boost in stats most of the forms give you. Granted, you can get screwed if you're a spell caster and wind up in eagle form, or you took Improved Crit (rapier) and you're a bear. But typically this means you have just re-orient the role of your PC and turn them into the master scout or whatever. I think you were smart to say he can't wear metal armor. You may also want to give him a -4 penalty to move silently checks due to those clopping hooves he's now got. Your call.

3) I had a dwarven PV in my party who got reincarnated twice. First time he ended up as an elf. He was a dwarven barbarian and man was that humiliating for him. He even tried giving himself a full-body shave so he'd have enough hair to fashion a fake beard.

The second time he came back as a wolf. THAT was ugly. Improved Trip on EVERY attack. I don't have to tell you how old that gets when you have a nice pile of mooks lined up and they spend most of a round just standing up.

Then the party buffed him by casting fly and improved invis on him. We called him Airwolf. He was pretty unstoppable. And with a druid in the party to give him barkskin and greater magic fang, he wasn't hurting for AC or attack power.

We decided he couldn't wear boots, gloves, or a cape in wolf form. I think you really have to be picky in what a reincarnated creature can and cannot do, otherwise a reincarnated PC can come back significantly better and stronger than he was before he died.

It can provide some great roleplaying, but I hope the mechanics get fixed in 3.5.

-Thrommel, comical Ernest Borgnine to your dashing Jan Michael Vincent.

Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/7/03 7:21 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: Well...
"He even tried giving himself a full-body shave so he'd have enough hair to fashion a fake beard." :lol

"We called him Airwolf." :rollin

Total hijack: My party hasn't even reach Rastor yet, but I've already started introducing the name Thrommel to them as a great paladin of the past who fought at the Battle of Emridy Meadows. Anyway, two of the PCs who frequent these boards quietly mentioned "Hey, did you know there's a Thrommel who posts on Monte Cook's boards?" They asked if that's where I got the name. :)

Cordo Crowfoot
Here for a while
(3/7/03 9:33 pm)
Reply
Consider SS creature level advancement
I'm dealing with the same issue in my campaign, in which a Druid was reincarnated as a Centaur. The first session that he showed up, the normally quiet player who plays the Dwarven Fighter nearly had a fit.

I was looking forward to Savage Species as I figured it would offer us the definitive way to solve this issue, and while I thought it was a great product, I was disappointed on that one point.

While I know it isn't the "official" way to do it by the rules, I would look into giving them the first level of the creature in Savage Species' creature-advancement-by-level format.

That will keep them reasonably balanced with the rest of the party, and will make any future changes easy as well.

Normally mixing creature advancement with class advancement isn't allowed, but I think I am going to allow it in my case for the reasons above.

You can also do some handwaving as a DM and say that the person was reincarnated as a juvenile, they are still "growing into understanding the capabilities of their new form" etc. etc.

"They were immediately and absolutely recognizable as adventurers. They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stripped of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came... They were scum who died violent deaths, hanging on to a certain cachet among the impressionable through their undeniable bravery and their occasionally impressive exploits" China Mieville, Perdido Street Station

Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/7/03 10:04 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: Consider SS creature level advancement
I thought I read somewhere (sorry I have no reference) that you should apply all the benefits now, the full ECL of the satyr/cleric or whatever. However, the character does not gain any more levels until he gains enough experience to get to ECL+new level. He'll be stuck on the current level for a long time, but it's a workable solution. I'd prefer Cordo's idea as long as you can figure out the details such that everyone's happy about it.

Cordo Crowfoot
Here for a while
(3/7/03 10:19 pm)
Reply
Re: Consider SS creature level advancement
By the example "Transformation" in Savage Species (a wererat is the example used there), you do apply the ECL. I don't have the book yet, but from my hour with it, it seemed to list reincarnation as a possible way to "transform".

That's how I was doing it before with the Centaur, just adding the ECL to the character. But it wasn't an ideal solution. Because of what I2K points out, that the player has to wait a long time to see any advancement, and also because until the other characters catch up in ECL, they can be majorly overshadowed.

Siobharek 
Still here? Wow.
(3/7/03 11:20 pm)
Reply
Re: Consider SS creature level advancement
Savage Species does have details for what happens to ECL when the character is reincarnated. Unfortunately, my wife and kid are pulling me, so I*ll update later. Sorry.

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

a madman
Here for a while
(3/8/03 1:23 am)
Reply
Re: Reincarnation
Actually, I hate to say it but you keep your own mental stats.

"He retains his intelligence, wisdom, and charisma scores..."

and a bit later
"Strength, dexterity, and constitution depend partly on his new body. First eliminate the character's racial adjustments [...] and then apply the adjustments found below."

Note that the list of adjustments are all physical, and that a satyr has racial bonuses of +2 to all mental stats. Dwarves and half-orcs (ESPECIALLY half-orcs) get screwed with reincarnate. :\




This database is correct. If you find an error, it lies with reality. It is your responsibility to correct any faults you find, and ensure reality is kept up to date with these records.

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

Add Reply

Email This To a Friend Email This To a Friend
Topic Control Image Topic Commands
Click to receive email notification of replies Click to receive email notification of replies
Click to stop receiving email notification of replies Click to stop receiving email notification of replies
jump to:

- Okay -- Your Turn - Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil - Home -



Powered By ezboard® Ver. 7.245b
Copyright ©1999-2003 ezboard, Inc.