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Author
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Comment
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BarqMulch
Looking around
(3/7/03 7:17 pm)
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Earth Node details
Has anyone written up details for using the Earth Node as an add-on to RttToEE?
If not, I've used the original ToEE map
( www.darktheatre.net/dnd/maps/earth.jpg )
and put in Ogremoch and some earthy creatures, including an interesting encounter with a Rukarazyll from the MM2. I just have to write up some descriptions and make it all pretty, if anyone here wants to use it...
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 Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/7/03 7:26 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Earth Node details
I don't know if I'll ever need it, but I certainly think it'd be cool to upload to ZansForCans's site. Also, I've noticed you haven't updated your log in forever.  It's on page 19 I think.
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errant42
Here for a while
(3/7/03 8:58 pm)
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Re: Earth Node details
I'd love to see what you've got if you get the chance to post it. The link to the map in your post didn't work for me, though... I have the original ToEE module, so I don't need it, but if someone else does, it could be a problem.
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Cordo Crowfoot
Here for a while
(3/7/03 9:35 pm)
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Re: Earth Node details
I'd like to see it as well.
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BarqMulch
Looking around
(3/9/03 2:03 am)
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Re: Earth Node Details
You're right, Infiniti2000, I've been neglecting my log. I've been busy with a new job, and trying to catch up from where I left off to where my guys are now (Fire Node) seems a daunting task. I had actually started the log when they were almost through the CRM and hoped to catch up.
I'll post a link to a PDF of the Earth Node add-on, including the map, once I'm done.
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BarqMulch
Looking around
(3/12/03 10:22 pm)
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Re: Earth Node Details
OK, everybody, I'm done!
Here it is:
RttToEE Earth Node Add-On
I used Monte's Fire Node writeup as a template.
I don't have the original module to know how the Node was supposed to be set up, so I made up some stuff. Hope you like it...
It's version 0.9, as I'm sure I've missed something somewhere. I'm sure you'll let me know. 
Edited by: BarqMulch at: 3/12/03 10:23:52 pm
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errant42
Here for a while
(3/12/03 10:37 pm)
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Re: Earth Node Details
VERY cool... I will almost certainly use this. Thanks for posting it.
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Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/13/03 7:06 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Earth Node Details
Way cool, BarqMulch! Okay, you are forgiven about the log.  I'll look at it in more detail this weekend and give you some feedback.
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BarqMulch
Looking around
(3/13/03 9:19 pm)
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Re: Earth Node Details
Silly me -- I say in the document that people can modify it as they want, but it's a read-only PDF... 
Here's the Word2000 version. You'll need the Watson font.
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Zarrock
Here for a while
(3/14/03 8:39 am)
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Re: Earth Node Details
Great work. I'll definitely be using this . Just a shame I haven't got the Air and Water Node maps - should be fun to create those.
-Zarrock
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Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/15/03 11:05 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Earth Node Details
Great stuff, BarqMulch. Here are my comments:
1. Because the node impedes spellcasting, it should also empower/extend like-related spells. These are from the rules in the MotP. I know Monte's fire node doesn't allow it either, but I think it would be a good change to make there as well. Thoughts?
2. I think you should make the height in chamber 1 50ft to allow the dragon to hover more effectively. Also, how did you get here hide skill as +20? You might have put in some circumstance bonus or something that I do not see, perhaps -1/5ft?
3. Area 10 should be EL 14.
4. Area 11 should be EL 14 or did you intend +10% ad hoc XP bonus? That rukarazyll is yukky!
5. Area 15 is EL 11 (unless you apply an ad hox XP bonus for the collapsing entrance).
6. Area 18 is EL 14.
7. A maralith, wow! That's one tough prelude to Ogremoch. The maralith is as challenging as Ogremoch. Are you sure you want to put it in there?
8. Area 22 is EL 10.
9. Area 24 suggestion: replace 2 Tharizdun touch spells of Lareth with endurance and bull's strength and have him cast them on Ogremoch. You can also replace the searing light with magic circle against good.
10. Ssthrah gets 6 feats (1 + 1/4HD which is 1+21/4=6). I suggest that the sixth one be improved critical (claw).
Way cool! Now, when are you gonna finish the other two nodes?
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Thrommel
Can't leave now (mod)
(3/15/03 10:15 pm)
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Re: Earth Node Details
There's a lot of great work here. I think you did a nice job adapting it from the Fire Node.
Here's my problem with the nodes in general, but specifically in detailing the further nodes: how is the plot advanced?
When I ran the Fire Node with my party it worked out like this:
1) Everyone buffs up to go take on Imix
2) Everyone gets jumped by the dragon and some other dudes on arrival
3) Everyone kicks butt and is stoked to go take on the boss monster
4) The party wanders around at random for three hours, looking for said boss monster.
Needless to say, it got to the point where the party was doing stuff like "We just see some giants? We move on..." Very frustrating for the party and rather anti-climactic.
I see the same problem with having additional nodes - it just turns into the CRM all over again: Kill. Rinse. Repeat.
Now, I don't mean to make this sound overly harsh because I can see that you've put a lot of energy and hard work into producing this. I really think it looks great.
I just find myself thinking... how does having more nodes enrich the story or keep the action building to an exciting climax? Killing one Prince of Elemental Evil is cool. But how do you top that?
If the players begin whacking all the Princes, then the only 'capstone' encounter of this huuuuuge module that I can think of is to fight Big T himself or his avatar. Other than that I'm at a bit of a loss.
I wish I had some better ideas here, but that's one of the reasons I never tried to flesh out the other nodes -- I just couldn't come up with a way to work them in that didn't bog down the plot.
Anyone have any suggestions?
-Thrommel, post. Rinse. Repeat.
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Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/16/03 10:12 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Earth Node Details
As a counterpoint, the logical goal for the doomdreamers would be to awaken all elemental princes before trying to free Tharizdun. Even a 75% chance of success is probably too risky for their hundreds of years of effort. If the players destroy the fire node quickly enough, then you're right, the other nodes would not be uncovered, but with a slow-moving party, it is possible.
However, the best reason for BarqMulch's work here is really as a replacement for the fire node, rather than an addition. I'm sure in other campaigns it would make more sense for another node to be the first one uncovered, especially if the corresponding temple in the CRM happens to be the "winner". There might also be some in game reasons to want it that way (perhaps the party has a secret hatred for the water element, maybe one of the PC's is an elemental savant of an opposing element).
In any case, it might be a good idea to just include a couple of encounters in the node (to soften up the PC's) and then have them find the prince (and the Champion if you want). Your advice on that is very sound (i.e. the anti-climactic-ness of dragging on encounters this late in the adventure).
"Anyone have any suggestions?"
The best suggestion I can come up with is have Lareth be the final goal, not the elemental prince. So, first you need to do some finagling probably to make sure he survives (conveniently have him make saves, have the necessary protection spells, spell immunity, etc.) any battle. In fact, he might just hang back and not engage and the party might very well ignore him while they fight the more obvious threat. Then, upon the defeat of the prince, Lareth says something antagonizing and flees to the gate to the next elemental node. He might have set up some word of recall scrolls (or refuge sticks) or something to do this. Make sure that he leads them on to the proper node if you have more than 2 available (i.e. don't have Lareth flee to the water node while the party goes to the earth node to defeat Ogremoch). This way, the party is always chasing Lareth while having to fight each of the princes (or at least the ones you want to use, maybe only two of them). The climax is the fight with Lareth, which should not be so easy despite the level difference, because the party will be severely softened.
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BarqMulch
Looking around
(3/16/03 8:33 pm)
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Re: Earth Node details
Yes indeedy, Infiniti2000 -- Lareth is the goal for the Earth Node, as he has the Orb of Oblivion. Lareth is being smart by sticking near Ogremoch. In addition, the adventurers have to find the last Elemental Power Gem in order to destroy that Orb.
As for why I created it, Thrommel: only because my party was wasting time being "power gamers". I decreed that the Doomdreamers capitalized on the delay and opened up the second Node.
And no, I won't be writing up the other two nodes. The players are getting tired of said "Kill, rinse repeat" 
I'll make some changes based on suggestions and put v1.0 up, tonight or tomorrow.
ps. My campaign log seems to have bio-degraded due to inactivity...sigh.
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BarqMulch
Looking around
(3/16/03 9:20 pm)
Reply
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Re: Earth Node details
Well, that didn't take as long as I thought it would. Come and get it (same URLs)!
Infiniti2000, to address some of the specifics you mentioned:
1. Since Monte didn't increase fire spell efficacy in the Fire Node, I didn't increase Earth/Acid spell power in the Earth Node. Just being consistent.
2. I've increased the height of chamber 1. Good idea!
The extra +10 for Ssthrah's Hide DC came from the distance + coverage modifier from being buried in sand.
3. 4. 5. 6. 8. You're right! I'm terrible with ELs...fixed.
7. Actually, if you look at a Marilith's stats compared to Ogremoch's, they just aren't in the same league. In addition, defeating the Marilith isn't required, and I've provided a nice intelligent ring for those who take up the challenge and win.
9. Nah. Ogremoch's powerful enough, though I did boost Lareth up a level in this revision. My party killed him in the surprise round!
10. Done.
Also, your comment to Thrommel about Lareth being able to get away from the adventurers is correct. Since he would have the earth gem, he could just touch it to shift to the Earth Node automatically.
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Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/16/03 9:47 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Earth Node details
Nice! Downloaded...it shall be used (I hope), but it will be a long time before it's necessary...
1. No problem. In fact, I had only noticed this while reading through your work. I had not read that part apparently when reading over the module the first 3 or 4 times.
EL's - Since I've going through the module in great detail, looking for errata, maybe you've noticed my posts? Anyway, it's helped me learn a lot about EL's and memorize tons of stats. I can pretty much look at a cleric (any level) and calculate the stats from memory. Pathetic, I know. 
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Andorax
Still here? Wow.
(3/17/03 9:40 am)
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Re: Earth Node details
Here's a bizarre thought...has anyone thought about having the PRINCES flee from battle? I know most tend to see them as unconquerable egos that would rather die than admit puny mortals could slay them, but is that necessarialy so?
If the PCs are getting arrogant, and being highly successful against the Princes, why not have each in turn flee, perhaps eventually making their way from the node back to the Greater Temple and gathering there?
If one prince at a time isn't a good enough end fight, why not take on BOTH of them in the Greater Temple, after smacking Lareth and taking over the Orb.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
deafdungeonmasterRIT
Here to stay
(3/17/03 9:46 am)
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My first and only one word..
Unthinkable!
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