Any advice for a novice DM feeling in over his head?

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geemarcus Looking around (3/8/03 8:30 am) Reply	Any advice for a novice DM feeling in over his head? Hi, New poster, new DM (aside from some lame attempts back in second ed.). I've run three sessions of RtToEE, and while they've gone smoothly, and everyone is having fun, I don't feel like I'm providing anything near the challenge level that this adventure is (in)famous for. I realize that overcoming this will take time and practice, so I'm really just putting it out there to let you know where I'm coming from. I've got very munchkin-y players who made pretty short work of Big U. (although I admit they came close to losing a party member) Anyway, I'm feeling like I've botched things to a degree. Our last session kind of got out of my control. The party wanted to get right into things from the beginning, so the first two sessions were mostly spent in the moathouse, where they completely cleaned house, managed to capture one of the clerics (I just played her insane, so they got nothing from her), and got the relics. They have a real no-nonsense attitude, so upon returning to Hommlet, they immediately followed up on the Greynor Ton Journal. First they confronted Chatrilon. I of course hadn't prepared a decent lie for him to give them in response to his reference in the journal, and they weren't believing anything he said. That being the case, I just had him clam up for three rounds (observing, while the PCs argued among themselves ) and attempt a death attack on the nearest PC (which failed miserably, I'd used up all my high rolls for the evening on a wandering monster encounter). I considered having Maridosen try to help him, but I knew I didn't have a chance, so I figured she'd go report to Dunrat. The party took Chatrilon to Elmo, and then immediately headed to the Flour mill. This was around 9 pm, so I figured there was no one to see until they headed into the basement. I had earlier rolled up who would be there, and it was Dunrat, Grune, Maridosen (conveniently, since she would have gone straight to Dunrat after Chatrilon was grabbed), and the disguised Tifeling (Sart?). Dunrat's little bird in the tree warned them, and I knew that the party wouldn't take any BS. Since Maridosen had tipped them off anyhow, I had the cultists prepare for battle, casting buff spells and the like. As I mentioned before I'm having trouble with challenging the party, and the fight didn't go very well for me... Actually it started off promisingly, Dunrat managed to hold the first fighter who came down the stairs, and Grune was waiting next to the doorway. If I'd been a smart DM, I would have planned for Grune to Coup De Grace, but I'm not that smart. Our regular DM, now playing, suggested it however, but that was pretty nasty of him and I couldn't bring myself to do it since I didn't think of it myself. The fighter in question was being played by my brother, and I'm not sure I could have done it anyway, I guess I need to be more cold-hearted. Much of the battle was spent with the NPC's drinking potions of healing just to prolong their lives one more round. Anyhow, I've gone off on a tangent. The party won, the rest of the cultists are still at large, and in our next session the party had indicated that they're heading for Rastor as soon as they get the chance. They're not interested in "Scooby-doo'ing" around Nulb and the ruined temple. Have I totally botched things up? I just feel like everything is happening too quickly. Can anyone suggest development for that the remaining cultists will do now? Starting with our next session, we're bringing a 5th player into the game. Considering how much trouble I'm having challenging them, this worries me. I guess I need to amp up the encounters, but I've been a player in a campaign run by a DM who didn't do any prep, and he was constantly having to throw tougher baddies at us to compensate. I don't want to be like that. I honestly don't feel like my preparation was too bad, I had tactics planned, but they become moot when your NPCs get hit for 75% of their max hit points almost every round. Any advice is most welcome, thanks!
Infiniti2000 Still here? Wow. (3/8/03 8:54 am) Reply ezSupporter	Re: Any advice for a novice DM feeling in over his head? "Have I totally botched things up?" Absolutely not! How do I know this? "...and everyone is having fun..." That is the most important, maybe the only important point. It does not matter if the bad guys really give a good accounting for themselves in your eyes, it only matters if your group has fun. That said, if you need tactical tips on the encounters, check out this thread, post additional questions, and believe me, you will get some great ideas from people like Andorax, SIERK, Siobharek, and others. Read through as many logs as you can (they are spread out, so check all 20 pages, spend the whole weekend if you have to); as in them you will find a lot of ideas on how to run some of the encounters. Granted, I like combat and I run my bad guys very tactically (though I do play there flaws), but I have 7 players and they certainly felt challenged. "I just feel like everything is happening too quickly." You certainly keep feeling this way as the adventure continues, especially as your group approaches the CRM. When that happens, I suggest you check out the Reaction Chains thread, as Andorax and I have outlined in detail some tactics on the two gates. "I had tactics planned, but they become moot when your NPCs get hit for 75% of their max hit points almost every round." The easiest solution here is to give your bad guys more hit points. Give them, say, 75% of max. This does not change the CR, but does make the encounters tougher. Do this only until you yourself become more comfortable with making the bad guys' tactics more sound. "Can anyone suggest development for that the remaining cultists will do now?" Okay, with Dunrat, Grune, Maridosen, Chat, and Vacra caught or killed, that leaves "Jaroo", Chenashi, and Toridan. First thing would be for everyone to hole up in the grove, probably doing away with Yundi and Wyst (which the PC's might uncover). Secondly, Jaroo might pose as Elmo and take the prisoners. If you think there is enough cultists left, they might stage another ambush for the party as they reenter Hommlet. If not, they might just try to recover as many relics as possible (maybe repurchasing them from Joman Dart if the party sold them) and then just heading off to Rastor. By the way, if your group uses the accessory books (splatbooks), I suggest you consider using one of the modified Jaroos in this thread. You can also check out the modified Lareth. Trust me, he kicks ass and will put the fear of Tharizdun in your players if he has the time to buff. Good luck and welcome to the boards!
Siobharek Still here? Wow. (3/9/03 12:50 pm) Reply	Re: Any advice for a novice DM feeling in over his head? I think I know exactly how you fell. After most sessions, I suffer from post-coital depression because I feel I didn't play my mooks nasty enough. When getting to Rastor, if the group stops there, describe the main NPCs: Tal, Tymerian, Rerrid, Thandain, and Jardeth. Just mention Rerrid and Jardeth (a dwarf and a half-orc!) sitting and talking at the inn, Jardeth giving these new bad-@sses a long, hard look - he's a cop, after all. If the players bite, have Tal ingratiate himself - and make sure you've got his prime objective (get intelligence) as well as his cover story ("hello, adventurers! What are powerful people like you doing in a dump like this? I know the area like the back of my hand, can I help you? Are you looking for anything" And if the players get suspicious, have him go all "Okay, you got me" and say something like, "Look, I'm a trader. The dwarves ain't buying much. You look like adventurers. I hoped I'd get on your good side and we could deal, 'kay? Let me buy you a beer (Tanbrosh-laced, of course), so there's no hard feelings."). If they don't bite, but just intend to use Rastor as a stopping point, make sure that Tal gathers as much information as possible about them. Most important, ask your players where they want to go next session, and prepare. I'm normally pretty anal when it comes to prepping, but this adventure will benefit from every minute you put into it before you sit down behind the screen. And as Infiniti2K says, you haven't botched things up. And you've got a routined DM sitting as a player to help you along. Just don't get soft - on your brother or anyone else Siobharek ...it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Boden Blagden Here for a while (3/9/03 1:09 pm) Reply	Re: Any advice for a novice DM feeling in over his head? This personally is the second full campaign that I have ran. I feel like I am not doing the job of the NPCs good enough all the time. I always think of things I could have done after the fact. I do a lot of e-mails to my players during the week to determine what their next move is going to be. FInding out what the group wants to do next will help you prepare better. Ofcourse always prepare for the unexpected.
Kenmis Here for a while (3/9/03 3:48 pm) Reply	You're doing fine As these guys said, if your party is having fun, you're doing your job. Also remember, not EVERY encounter is going to be insainly challanging. If it were, things would grow weary quickly for the players, as each fight is a life-and death struggle. Fights where they win by quite a margin are good for party morale, because, really, everybody wants to look like a badass every now and then, don't they? The previous posts have some great suggestions, and i also recomend you have your players keep a log/journal if they can. This is great a couple reasons: 1) Usualy the players will feel more connected to their charactor and will start roleplaying him/her better. 2) it gives you, the DM, extremely valuable insight as to what the party is thinking and how what stuck out as memorable. You can then use that to your advantage and make the sessions much more fun for everyone involved. I offer any player that keeps a log a 15% XP bonus for that session. Some other DM's here do similar things. Keep up the good work! And don't worry about it being too easy, by the time you get to theFire Bridge fight or the outer fane, you'll have ruthless combat down, this is comming from a first time DM who has managed to scare his players quite a bit.
Zenon Here for a while (3/10/03 7:34 am) Reply	Re: You're doing fine I'll just add this: Never be afraid to call a "break" and take 10 minutes to look over what's going to happen next. Example; The PC's: "We rush over to the mill!" The DM: "Ok, let call a munchy/bathroom/smoke break here for a couple of minutes while I organize my notes." (Use this time to look over what's at where they're going, spell lists, abilities, level of intelligence to determine tactics, etc.) True, it breaks the flow of things sometimes but the DM often needs some in-game time to think what's next. Hopefully as you get more confident, you'll need less of these so things should go smoother. Also, as other said, ask here about upcoming encounters. There are plenty of DM's here who can give you tips and pointers. This board is a great resource for any DM running this module. Good Luck!
geemarcus Looking around (3/10/03 8:27 am) Reply	Thanks everyone! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Having a Doppelganger Jaroo let the captured NPC's escape was great, it really shook the players up. I'm looking forward to leveling Chatrilon up and having him try and get his gear and the relics off the PCs. I'd decided that Jaroo would take an unconscious Elmo back to the Flour mill, and to my surprise the party actually staked the place out, and rescued Elmo. This was good because there's always too high a level of paranoia in our group, and I didn't want them to be too lost, since Elmo was the only person in town that they trusted. I actually managed to put a little fear into the party with a wandering monster encounter on the way to Rastor. 6 Dire Bats and two Gryphons (I hope I read the table right). It was nice because the PC's were disorganized for a change. They've got a Barb/Psychic Warrior who uses a spiked chain with Hold the Line/Standstill to stop enemies from closing (he actually stopped Big U in a charge), but he didn't manage to get the opportunity once during the encounter. Siobharek's comments regarding the Rastor NPC's were great. They've already met Rerrid, but I wish I'd had Jardeth with him, that would have been cool. As far as introducing Tal, I avoided the issue in yesterday's session because they'd found Dunrat's note in the Mill, something about getting wagons from Tal, so they PC's are gunning for him... I'm not sure how I'm going to handle that, they're not going to take any nonsense from him, and I'm trying to come up with a decent cover story.
madfox Still here? Wow. (3/10/03 8:41 am) Reply	Re: Thanks everyone! Just portray Tal as a greedy merchant always looking for a profit. It is not as if Dunrat needs to buy/get everything from fellow cultists. Like the average merchant asks why exactly somebody needs a wagon for.
Infiniti2000 Still here? Wow. (3/10/03 10:15 am) Reply ezSupporter	Re: Thanks everyone! Exactly, have Tal 'confess' about the wagon. "Sure, I sold Dunrat the wagon, but I have no idea why he needed it. What's the problem? Have you got something against a guy making an honest living?"
LostSoul Here for a while (3/11/03 2:46 am) Reply	Good work Everything sounds like it's going good. In the 2 adventures I've run with my group (put the module on hold for a while so we could finish a ten-year campaign!), they've cleared Hommlet and the Moathouse. I wouldn't worry about the adventure going too quick, because the CRM is just huge.
geemarcus Looking around (3/14/03 5:22 am) Reply	Chatrilon Well, we ended our last session with the PC's starting out their first night in Rastor, with plans to head to the mines in the morning. I'd like to have Chatrilon attempt to steal his gear and the relics back. I'm sure there's stuff here on the boards relating to this situation, but my searches didn't come up with anything. If anyone has any advice or a pointer to a thread that talks about doing this that would be great. Thanks!
Siobharek Still here? Wow. (3/14/03 5:31 am) Reply	Re: Chatrilon The tricky thing here that the player holding the relics may not have detailed how he's keeping him. And if you ask him, he'll sleep with them under his pillow, tied to his wrist or grafted to his legs. So you will have to decide what reasonable precautions the player and his PC may have taken to avoid theft in a new and scruffy-looking town. Once you have done that, and written it down for the player to see after the deed is done, you then start thinking about how Chatrilon may go about getting his gear back. Remember that he probably doesn't know about Tal Chammish and sure as hell wouldn't have any connections to the CRM (consensus is that he was hired by Dunrat). In the end, it'll come down to some opposed rolls between the sleeping PC and Chatrilon sneaking about in the PCs' room. I'd say that due to being asleep, all PCs should be considered as rolling -5 on their listen rolls with no chance of spotting anything. Siobharek ...it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
geemarcus Looking around (3/14/03 5:54 am) Reply	Chatrilon Yeah, I knew it would be a mistake to ask the players where they put the stuff, and I was afraid no matter what I did it would cause an argument if Chat succeeded, so your advice is very helpful, thanks. I'm making up a character sheet for Chatrilon using heroforge, and I can't figure out how he's getting +7 to attack with a +1 rapier. BAB +3 and no strength bonus? I checked the errata and searched around, but didn't find anything. I also can't get all his skills to add up, I'm coming up 6 points short. I didn't do the math myself, but HF hasn't failed me before... I guess I'll just fudge it anyway, he needs all the help he can get...
geemarcus Looking around (3/14/03 5:59 am) Reply	oops I get the rapier bonus, forgot about feats. Sorry.
geemarcus Looking around (3/14/03 6:05 am) Reply	oops again Synergy bonuses. I'm still a couple of skill points shy, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.
Siobharek Still here? Wow. (3/14/03 6:06 am) Reply	Re: oops Also, remember that Chatrilon has been on the loose a while now. There's no reason why he couldn't have made a killing or two in Verbobonc, getting enough money for some new weapons and oh, maybe a potion of hiding and a potion of sneaking. Edit: One thing: Look at the little box with your name to the left of your message. There should be an edit option. It's customary to use that rather than simply making new posts. Siobharek ...it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing. Edited by: Siobharek at: 3/14/03 6:10:30 am
geemarcus Looking around (3/14/03 7:38 am) Reply	edit option Sorry, I had looked for an edit option, but I didn't see any. Turns out I needed to do a refresh for the thread to reflect that I was logged in. re: Chatrilon, yeah, I'm re-equipping him a bit. I was also thinking since the party has leveled up I might give him another level of assasin. You said in a post earlier that the consensus is that he was hired by Dunrat. I hadn't really thought about that before. With Dunrat dead, is it fair to assume the remaining cultists continue to pay him and want him to get the relics back for them? I was just looking at the splat book version of Jaroo, and thinking he could take over the leadership role left by Dunrat. Edited by: geemarcus at: 3/14/03 8:00:18 am
Zenon Here for a while (3/14/03 12:53 pm) Reply	Re: edit option *Quote:* I was just looking at the splat book version of Jaroo, and thinking he could take over the leadership role left by Dunrat Heck, just have "Jaroo" show up to the other cultists looking like Dunrat(!) and take over. Nothing says "power" like coming back from the dead all by yourself. Keep him in the background so "Jaroo" can slip away before your PC catch up with him. Imagine your PC's questioning any captured cultists: PC: "Who's in charge? Who gives the orders?" Cultist: "Master Dunrat." PC: "He's dead, we killed him." Cultist: "Yeah, but he brought himself back and he's a little upset with you....MWHAHAHAHAHAH!" PC: Edited by: Zenon at: 3/14/03 12:54:19 pm
geemarcus Looking around (3/16/03 6:16 am) Reply	I need a post-mortem Basically what I want to know is, could I have done a better job here? My players walked into the CRM main entrance dressed in robes with holy symbols. They walked straight ahead and opened the doors leading the the Huge Howler. I wanted to give them a chance to avoid the battle, so I just had it eye them suspiciously. Then the Rogue/Ranger (Roland) decided to pelt it with an arrow (missing). HOOOOOOWWWWWLLLLLL!!!! Although the module doesn't say so, I assumed the howl would have the same effect as one of the guard's bells getting rung, bringing everyone from areas 1-17. I had rolled up how long this would take beforehand, and started counting rounds. Round 1. The Howler won initiative, but was chained up and useless. Deacon the wizard begins a summon monster (I can't remember now what it was, but it had a breath weapon). Viscera the Barbarian freak with the spiked chain stays with Deacon to protect him at all times, and doesn't do anything for the first few rounds. They're standing about 20 feet down the hall from the doorway into the room. Timinzee, the Elven Cleric, and Lustmorde, the rogue both pelt the Howler with arrows. They spend the rest of the combat firing arrows into the room, so I won't mention them again. Round 2. Deacon's summoned monster arrives and blasts the Howler with a breath weapon. Deacon casts flaming sphere right behind the Howler. Roland fires his bow. Wormspike comes out of his room and rushes to the howler, releasing it from its chain. In retrospect, I should have had the Howler attack right away, assuming it held its initiative, but I didn't. Oops. Mereclar comes out of his room, barks out a couple of questions ("What's all this, then? $:\$ ) and charges Roland at the door, still wielding his bow. I probably should have had him get on his mount, but I don't know what he could have done from there other than fire arrows. Then, 8 gnolls pop out of one of the other rooms and file in, swords drawn. Round 3. The summoned monster was in front of the door, and the Howler had to go through it to get anywhere, so he power attacked, hitting with teeth and 1 quill. I couldn't believe that this didn't kill the thing. This is where I lost the battle, as Deacon casts Web into the room, holding the howler, Wormspike, Mereclar, and all 8 gnolls. The gnolls aren't worth mentioning again. A few of them managed to succeed at strength checks to switch to their bows and fire a few shots, but that's about it. The Howler, with 29 strength, never made a strength check, and thus spent the next few rounds being pelted with arrows, breath weapon, and flaming sphere. Unbelievable! Roland dropped his bow and drew his swords, taking an AOO from Mereclar. Wormspike made his strength check and began hurling Javelins until he died, doing some nice damage. Mereclar also made his strength check, and continued to pound on Roland. It was in this round that 12 gnolls and 4 humans arrived at the PCs backs, and rained arrows down on them. And they actually hit on a couple. I critted an amazing number of times during this combat (twice I confirmed a crit with another 20 ), but only when attacking with a puny CR1. I could really have used one of those for the Howler's strength check. Round 4. Deacon's summoned monster turns around and applies its breath weapon to the gnolls and humans to the rear. The flaming sphere continue to wreak havoc on the Howler and Wormspike. D then blew a lightning bolt through the guys to the rear, and took out about 6 of them. Roland puts the finishing blow to Mereclar. Viscera takes his chain to the rear and starts popping heads and cleaving. At this point, Terrenygit and his Zombies are around the corner, and a couple of the PCs hear him casting a spell (Desecrate - fat lot of good that did). No one in earshot could identify a divine spell. The gnolls and humans that remained behind the PCs set off another volley of arrows, and Viscera, with his spiked chain (10' reach), combat reflexes, hold the line, standstill and cleave took out about 5 of them. Ok, so he didn't use all those feats there, but now you know he has them and it can make my life a nightmare. Then the zombies start filing out of the corridor. They couldn't get any charges, so all they did was surround the PCs that they could and wait. Fortunately for them, Viscera had used up all his AOOs. Next, the remaining door behind the howler opens up, and the 14 humans in there start firing arrows (I allowed 4 to shoot each round, not sure if more would have been reasonable.) That's all they ever managed to do, so I won't mention that again. Round 5. I think Deacon's flaming sphere had gone bye bye, and he cast another one, sic-ing it on the humans in the room beyond the howler. Screams and the smell of charred flesh. I'm pretty sure by this time Wormspike and the Howler were both dead. Deac's summoned monster took down a bunch of Zombies. Roland by this time had moved down the hall, and began cleaving zombies. Actually, most of the zombies took more than one hit, so there wasn't much cleaving going on here. Terrenygit could tell which way the wind was blowing, and bolted to the north. News of the PCs will reach the ears of the Doomdreamers. Round 6. Deacon's summoned monster was gone, and he began to summon a shocker lizard. The sphere charred more flesh. Roland and Viscera made mincemeat out of Zombies, Gnolls and Humans to the rear. There's not much else to say... Round 7. Summoned shocker lizard arrives inside the doorway of the room full of humans. Deacon's familiar is also a shocker lizard. The two of them produce a Lethal Shock centered on the summoned lizard. All humans dead. That's pretty much it. 42 seconds and about 20K experience points later, the party is ankle deep in blood and gore. Props to Deacon's player, he's a min/max munchkin. He also designed Viscera and Timinzee (who's incredibly lethal with his bow). He's also our usual DM, and he's so effective he's managed 3 TPKs on us in the past. And we're not really all that bad, I swear! Looking back on the battle, I see a couple little mistakes I made, but there's got to be more. I mean seriously, nobody got hurt enough to get even a little frightened. Please, tell me what I could have done differently, I really want to get better and give these guys a challenge. Thanks!
Zenon Here for a while (3/16/03 8:26 am) Reply	Re: I need a post-mortem Wow, sound like they did well! They should be congratulated! 1) "I made mistakes" Don't sweat this. I doubt you'll find a DM on this board who hasn't made mistakes during combat in one place or another. 2) "They waltzed right through" shrug It happens. Sometimes the dice rolls are on the PC's side and the DM can't roll to save his life. You'll have plenty of chances against them, this is only the opening shot in the war. 3) "They're a mix/max group" There's a couple of things you can do here. I didn't see you mention what level they all are or how many total the party is: -XP: figure out their APL (average party level). For high min/maxing, bump it up by one before figuring out the XP for the creatures. If ther group is larger that 4 people , do the same, bump up the APL by another one. If they have a fight where the NPC are unprepared, reduce the CR of the creatures using the guidlines in the DMG for this. BUT - don't forget to increase CR's of prepared creatures. -HP: Instead of going by the book HP for the creatures and NPC, max out their HP's. This may enable them to stand a little while longer against the PC's. -Tactics: Since Terrenygit got away, not how much of the PC's tactics that they use that he saw. Be sure he tells this info to others in the CRM. Soon, the PC's shouldn't be able to pull off that kind of thing this easily because their enemies will be ready for it, spreading out to avoid Web spells, etc. Cahnge NPC spell lists based on what they know of the PC's tactics (They always use Hold Person? Have Remove Paralysis on a spell list. Fireball? Protection from Fire, etc.). -NPC buffing: Don't forget to have your NPC clerics buff before combat. IIRC, Terrenygit's AC can reach something like 29 or so with spells. -Tactical Spell tageting selection: NPC clerics know what classes are weak against their spells depending on the saves. Hold Person? Cast it on a Barbarian or Fighter due to poor Will Saves. Does the spell have a Fort Save? Then a rogue should be the target. The NPCs will begin to know who is what by reports coming from other NPCs ("And Master, watch out for the small human. I watched his shove a short sword through Meleclar's back, slaying him [ROGUE!]. And the Elf in leather? I watched him cast spells and rarely use weapons but he held forth no holy symbol while doing so [WIZARD/SORC]." -Counterspelling: There will be time when you have several clerics on the field at once (like the Earth Temple). If one has dispel magic, have them ready to counterspell to stop the big-bang PC spells. 4) "They weren't even challenged!" Play the CRM as a living place. Here are a couple of options you could go with from where you left off: -Terrenygit: I would have him flee immediately to the Earth Temple and his brother Trogs. Spread the word of the attack. Pull back the guards and concentrate you Earth Temple force in one spot like the main temple. Apply all buff spells. Have the Earth Temple rogue out watching for intruders with her 90' darkvision and high spot. Pull her back to warn the main force where to engage. Trust me, a fully roused and prepared Earth Temple should be a hammer to shatter your PCs - all the trog troops, the Swordmaster, Greshta, Terrenygit, the three or four ET clerics fully buffed, the Xorn, the Manticore. I think they should be scared of that. -Vranthris: The other way leads to Vranthris, with his god-awful vision distance, blindsight, spider climb, shield spell and (heck make him max HP) hit points he should be able to give your PC's a scare/fatalities if they aren't expecting it. Don't forget to have him flee (I used the water area near him to get away, he breathes underwater just fine), rest up and hold a grudge. Don't forget dragons can breathe every 1d4 rounds, all day, every day. Have him get behind the PC's and cut them off from retreating from the Fire Bridge Complex which is a natural choke point (one way one door secured). Don't forget, if Vranthris is trying this tactic, have him move all his treasure and stash is somewhere don't leave it in his lair. 5) "Attack-Rest-Attack-Rest" You didn't bring this up, but in case it happens don't let them get away with a major attack like this, then stop and rest in the CRM especially if someone got away to raise an alarm. Don't be afraid to hit them while they're down, resting, etc. If you have NPC that can track them, follow their scent and can justify it, do it. Just ask yourself what would the PC's do if they were the ones being attacked like this in their stronghold? Look at what you have avaiable to work with then color it with a little Chaotic-ness and Madness and do it. Is this what you're looking for? Edited by: Zenon at: 3/16/03 8:32:56 am
Infiniti2000 Still here? Wow. (3/16/03 8:40 am) Reply ezSupporter	Re: I need a post-mortem I can only second Zenon's great post. One other thing, Vranthis will not hesitate to use the fiendish girallon trap. If he hears the fight with the ettin and the rust monster or is otherwise prepared for it, the PC's should be in a world of hurt. The girallon could keep the front line fighters busy while Vranthis spider climbs around to the mages and rogues.