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Here for a while
(3/9/03 11:49 pm)
How I goofed the crypt area 124 in the CRM tonight
Ok my group finally made it to the crypt (area 124). They were wary of the statues but inspected them and went in.

The thief and fighter woke up the dire bats, the party killed them and moved on. In area 125 they decided to open up one of the crypts (an untrapped one at first) and that's when I smiled to myself and noted who "defiled" the corpse. They opend the next sarcophagus, set off the dart trap, said "oh well" to 7 pts damage and moved on to the 3rd sarcophagus.

As they exited, one of the PCs started to get afflicted by the flesh-eating curse (the other 2 players who were rooting through the corpses made their roles).

To their credit, the players tried absolutely everything at their disposal, eventually settling on having the player polymorph herself into a troll to offset the 1 hp/turn "disease". The idea being that the regeneration would give the PC a net gain of 4 hp/turn but he'd still be writhing in agony for a few hours instead of dead.

Then the druid polymorphed into a bird and flew to Rastor to get help from Rerrid, who happened to have an old remove disease potion handy and sold it at a discount. So the druid flew back and they tried it and of course it didn't work. Neutralize poison scroll didn't work. An endurance spell helped briefly but eventually the extra HP were gone.

And then the inevitable happened. See, we play from 2 PM to 10 PM Sundays and by the end of the session I get tired and forgetful. I had the players roll their own dice for the Reflex roll to avoid the dart trap and then grabbed their sheets to roll the Fortitude save. Somehow, after all their teeth-gnashing and great pains to save their comrade, I "remembered" that their bulky fighter had missed the Fort. roll by a point and backtracked time to say that suddenly he had this horrible flesh-eating disease also.


Not a good thing to do at the end of a drama-filled session.

I'd done so well, too, describing the black and grey flesh, bone showing through fingertips as they scratched through the flesh, the horrible agony and writhing in pain while the others stood by helpless, the hit points clicking away, round by round...and then I freakin' REWOUND and remembered the wrong thing.

So finally I realized the error I'd made and let the theif discover the intricate scrollwork on the 2 statues was glowing (which they hadn't noticed before) and they got the idea to destroy a statue. By this time it was nearing 10 PM and I couldn't find out exactly how does one destroy a statue (hardness, HP, break DC?) and so I just let them topple a statue and it broke...

I submit this pitiful ending for peer review :)

So the rules questions I have are:
1. For this curse, their plan was the polymorph the PC into a troll to take advantage of the regeneration. This would work for several hours until it wore off, then they'd have to rely on a spell from the druid or possibly haul the PC into town for Rerrid to help out. How have other groups tried to take care of this? And no, my group never once thought it was a curse, they thought this came about because they all got hit by the darts.
2. What ARE the rules for breaking the statues? As a conciliatory gesture I let the druid (shapechanged into a STR 27 brown bear) push over the 10' tall statue, which broke it. But what if they'd tried warhammers and swords? I can never find that info in the middle of a situation.

Anyway, lesson learned. No more rewinding, I hated it as a player and feel bad for using it as a DM. Thanks for reading.

Here for a while
(3/10/03 7:18 am)
Re: How I goofed the crypt area 124 in the CRM tonight
Here are the rules for breaking objects from the SRD (there should be a section in the PHB under the Combat chapter that says basically the same thing but check it just to be sure):

Damage to Objects
The amount of damage that an object can withstand depends on what it is made out of and how big it is. Weapon damage is rolled normally against objects.
Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points
Substance Hardness Hit Points
--------- -------- ----------
Paper 0 2/inch of thickness
Rope 0 2/inch of thickness
Glass 1 1/inch of thickness
Ice 0 3/inch of thickness
Wood 5 10/inch of thickness
Stone 8 15/inch of thickness
Iron 10 30/inch of thickness
Mithral 15 30/inch of thickness
Adamantite 20 40/inch of thickness
Table: Common Weapon and Shield Hardness and Hit Points
Weapon                                        Hardness HP
------                                        -------- --
Tiny blade                                10 1
Small blade                                10 2
Medium-size blade                        10 5
Large blade                                 10 10
Small metal-hafted weapon                10 10
Medium-size metal-hafted weapon        10 25
Small hafted weapon                        5 2
Medium-size hafted weapon                5 5
Large hafted weapon                        5 10
Huge club                                5 60
Buckler                                        10 5
Small wooden shield                        5 10
Large wooden shield                        5 15
Small steel shield                        10 10
Large steel shield                        10 20
Tower shield                                5 20
Table: DCs to Break or Burst Items
A common use of Strength is to break open doors and burst bonds. Larger and smaller creatures get size bonuses and size penalties on these Strength checks: Fine –16, Diminutive –12, Tiny –8, Small –4, Large +4, Huge +8, Gargantuan +12, Colossal +16.
Strength Check to:                DC
------------------                --
Break down simple door                13
Break down good door                18
Break down strong door                23
Burst rope bonds                23
Bend iron bars                        24
Break down barred door                25
Burst chain bonds                26
Break down iron door                28
Table : Object Hardness and Hit Points
Object                                Hardness        Hit Points        Break DC*
------                                --------        ----------        ---------
Rope (1 inch diam.)                0                2                23
Simple wooden door                5                10                13
Spear                                5                2                14
Small chest                        5                1                17
Good wooden door                5                15                18
Treasure chest                        5                15                23
Strong wooden door                5                20                23
Masonry wall (1 ft. thick)        8                90                35
Hewn stone (3 ft. thick)        8                540                50
Chain                                10                5                26
Manacles                        10                10                26
Masterwork manacles                10                10                28
Iron door (2 in. thick)        10                60                28
* Break DC: The DC for a Strength check needed to destroy the item in one action, rather than reducing it to zero hit points through a series of attacks.
Inanimate objects are immune to critical hits. Objects are immune to subdual damage. Animated objects are immune to critical hits because they are constructs.
Ranged Weapon Damage
Objects take half damage from ranged weapons (except for damage from siege engines and the like). Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object's hardness.
Energy Attacks
Objects take half damage from acid, fire, and lightning attacks. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one- quarter damage to objects. Sonic attacks deal full damage to objects.
Ineffective Weapons
The DM may determine that certain weapons just can't deal damage effectively to certain objects. For example, a combatant will have a hard time chopping down a door by shooting arrows at it or cutting a rope with a club.
Vulnerability to Certain Attacks
The DM may rule that certain attacks are especially successful against some objects. For example, it's easy to light a curtain on fire or rip up a scroll.
Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object's hit points.
Hit Points
An object's hit point total depends on what it is made of and how big it is. When an object's hit points reach 0, it's ruined. Very large objects have separate hit point totals for different sections.
Saving Throws
Unattended nonmagical items never make saving throws. They are considered to have failed their saving throws, so they always are affected by (for instance) a disintegrate spell. An item attended by a combatant (being grasped, touched, or worn) receives a saving throw just as if the combatant herself were making the saving throw.
Magic items always get saving throws. A magic item's Fortitude, Reflex, and Will save bonuses are equal to 2 + one-half its caster level. Attended magic items either make saving throws as their owner or use their own saving throws, whichever are better.
Magic Weapons and Shields
The attacker cannot damage a magic weapon or shield that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck. Each +1 of enhancement bonus also adds 1 to the weapon's or shield's hardness and hit points. If a combatant's shield has a +2 enhancement bonus, a combatant add 2 to its hardness and to its hit points.
Breaking Items
When a combatant tries to break something with sudden force rather than by dealing regular damage, use a Strength check to see whether the combatant succeeds. The DC depends more on the construction of the item than on the material.
If an item has lost half or more of its hit points, the DC to break it drops by 2.

edit - Wow, that came out in a lousy format. You can see the .rtf here:


If you click on the link and it asks for a name & password, just hit cancel and it should open.

I can't recall if the statues had a Break DC listed. If they did, you would roll a d20+STR mod to try to get it - this would simulate pushing it over, etc. Several people should be able to try the Aid Another action to combine to do this. Aid Another says roll a 10 to be able to help, so d20+STR mod looking for a 10. For each person that suceeds at the Aid Another, add +2 to the main roll.

In your example, STR 27 main pusher with 3 helpers (A,B &C) at STR 14:

1) STR 27 = +8
2) A tries to Aid, needs d20+2 looking for 10. Rolls a total of 14.
3) B tries to Aid, needs d20+2 looking for 10. Rolls a total of 6.
4) C tries to Aid, needs d20+2 looking for 10. Rolls a total of 16.

So, the main pusher rolls d20+8(his str)+2+2 for a total of d20+12.

How many that can combine on a task like this is up to the DM.

If attacking with wepaons, determine if the weapon should be able to effect the statue (I would say things like arrows have no effect). Take the hardness off each strike (like Damage Reduction), then apply any left over to the hit points of the object. If they're using a spell, reference the Energy Effect section to see if/how the damage is applied.

Pretty much if someone is able to affect the object by getting hits through the hardness, eventually they can break it. It's only really an issue if they are under time pressure as to how fast they can break it using weapons.

Edited by: Zenon at: 3/10/03 7:21:07 am
Still here? Wow.
(3/10/03 7:23 am)
Re: How I goofed the crypt area 124 in the CRM tonight
Yeah, I hate rewinding, too. I generally only do it in the PC's favor, not the NPC's favor. Anyway, I believe the statues stats are listed in the room description, like hardness 8, hp 90, break DC 27 or something (don't have the module with me). The bear should be able to take 20 and break the statue, btw, so that was okay, if I got the break DC correct.

Also, I believe the disease should take effect immediately, so as they lift the sarcophagus lid, they feel the wracking pains. This will help them understand the nature of the effect and perhaps take steps (like using detect magic at this point, or some higher level cleric divinition spells). The troll gets regeneration 5 (not 4, not that it makes a difference), though I'm not sure it works against disease. However, if you missed the description on the statues that might have alerted them to their nature, then I'm all for helping them out.

The real question is, did your group have fun? If so, then all the concern about flubbing was moot. :)

Still here? Wow.
(3/10/03 7:33 am)
Re: How I goofed the crypt area 124 in the CRM tonight
You would expact they place the errata version of the polymorph other on the SRD, but either I am missing something or they did not do so...

Anyway, I am not sure a polymorphed character actually gains the exceptional abilities of their new form, but that it not entirely clear from the description of the spell in the SRD (the question is: are natural abilities the same as exceptional abilities??). There are also some limitations to HD and size in the errata form, but I assume the character was not small sized and at least 6th lvl which considering the location is to be expacted. Even then, the regeneration ability changes all attacks except fire and acid into subdual which is healed at a 5 hp/rd rate. In this case though we are talking about a curse, and personally, I would rule that it would be real damage and hence not recoverable due to regeneration. One thing though, was there even a chance for the PCs to realize it was a curse and if so why they gained the curse? After all, a curse without purpose hardly makes much sense.

As for rewinding things, the only time I do it, when it has to do something that happened within the last round and even then I rarely bother. The difficulties that arise from it are simply not worth the small benefits. Of course, this works both ways. Sometimes this works in advantage for the PCs and sometimes for the NPCs. I especially hate players then at the end of the round suddenly state they did hit the NPC because they had forgotten this or that bonus. What is it that makes calculating so difficult? :rolleyes

Here for a while
(3/10/03 8:26 am)
You dont get the creatures extraordinary abilities when you polymorph. Shapechange lets you do that, but it's a 9th level spell.

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