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Boden Blagden
Here for a while
(3/10/03 1:12 pm)
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Changing Chatrilon
In my game my PCs were attacked by but never really saw Chatrilon very good. He escaped back down under the Moathouse after attacking them and they didn't persue him. I have boosted him up to match the difference he should be from the PCs, He is now a Rogue 5/Assassin 5. Chatrilon now knows that Festrath has gone completely insane and reported this back to Hedrack, along with helping Yyslansh bring back the artifact to Hedrack. Since then Yyslansh has been killed in the fall of the Earth Temple.
Chatrilon however has been assigned resently to investigating the fall of the main gate, south gate, earth, and air temples. Chatrilon has found out that the PCs are going back and forth to and from the city, in my case it is not Verbabonc but a city called Ridgeford. He also knows they are the ones that defeated D'Gran and the rest of the Fire Bridge Complex, however D'Gran escaped and went to seek aid from Tessimon. (don't know about this yet, but does it sound like something D'Gran might do.) Chatrilon knows they have both air keys and earth keys and they have been talking to high priests and sages about them.
What do you think his next move would be?
The PCs are currently in Ridgeford and are about to set off to go back to Nulb and area to find Lareth. (The wizard of the group is staying in Ridgeford working on magic stuff while the others go off to Nulb and find Lareth, because the player won't be there this week.)
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Siobharek 
Still here? Wow.
(3/11/03 12:34 am)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon
Kill or capture the wizard.
It bites for the player who isn't there, but it's the logical thing for Chatrilon to do.
Then make as full a report as possible to Hedrack about his findings in the CRM. What can Chatrilon deduce from the battle sites (fireball smears, cracks in the walls indicating lightning bolts, wounds suggesting a specific weapon)?
Following that, go back to Ridgeford and kill or neutralize as many of the sages the party has consulted as possible. Get as exact locations of the high priests as possible for subsequent attacks by summoned monsters. Do the high priests have dependants that are more vulnerable than the priests themselves? If so (it might be dependants who the clerics are not too anxious for the public to know about - I'm sorry, but think choir boys here), then the PCs might suddenly find the clerics a lot less cooperative.
If Chatrilon does a good enough job, then Victor and Bethe have a new buddy.
As to D'Gran, I could easily see him try and take on Skassik the Blackguard in a bid for Fire Temple Champion. The result would be specatcular.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Zarrock
Here for a while
(3/11/03 4:40 am)
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Changing Chatrilon - to a Vampire!
Nice to see others tamper with Chatrilon. He was a huge pain for my party before they finally offed him in Elbulder.
IMC, Chatrilon used to work for the Night Masks of Westgate (and more precisely the powerful Vampire Wizard Geriontraxus - a secret worshipper of Tharizdun adn the one responsible for infecting Thrommel(Teregon IMC).
When most of the cultists in Hommlet were slain, Chatrilon managed to escape to Elbulder ,where Geriontraxus had arranged for 10 Zhentilar mercenaries to assist him when the party arrived.
Even when ambushed the party finally managed to get the better of old Chat (much to the liking of Geriontraxus - who brought him back and turned him). Chatrilon is now Rog5/Ass3 and a vampire. Whether or not Geriontraxus will send him back depends - the spinoff to my RttToEE campaign will feature a showdown with the Nightmasks of Westgate, the struggle of Geriontraxus to bring upon the fall of House Karanok (ancient enemies of another characters familY) to free the Entropy sphere and use it in another attempt to channel the power of Tharizdun.
-Zarrock
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madfox
Still here? Wow.
(3/11/03 5:18 am)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon - to a Vampire!
I have to agree with Siopharek on this one: kill all those characters that the PCs consulted as far as that is possible and make it look like natural accidents. This will seriously freak out the PCs, who are probably the only ones who put two and two together. The sages perhaps only know that those who deal with the PCs get to die, which might incriminate the PCs (depending on how the autorities of Ridgeford react to such a situation and how secretive the PCs have been about it) and at the very least will stop any open help to the PCs. My players tend to be very careful whom they consult under what circumstances for exactly that reason. Then again, so are the sages in my campaign who are confronted by symbols from secret cults with very evil reputations.
I am not sure, whether the PC who is staying behind should be killed. It is rather unfair, because the only reason he is staying behind, is because the player cannot make it to the game. Perhaps an explosion in his lab, which he barely survives is a much better idea? Or if you are really up to a nice side track, frame that PC for the murder on the sages. Of course, that only works if your players like a role-play intensive session in town.
One thing I really wonder about, is how difficult it will be for Hedrack to change the locks. In RL people will change their locks if they know criminals have got the keys, but doing that in case of the Outer Fane might be rather nasty.
One more thing, do the PCs have a favourite inn in Ridgeford? Somehow the idea of Hedrack summoning a demon and ordering it to attack the PCs while the PCs are at that inn sounds like a rather nasty tactic. Though, considering they have not yet attacked the Outer Fane, you might want to wait with that. After all, Hedrack will first send in the lions and assassins 
I have got nasty ideas enough, but when will realism destroy fairness and the fun of the players? I know that I have not done some nasty things for fun of the game, even though for realism it might be better if I had done them. Though last session I lured the two PC fighters into a very nasty ambush (lets be honest - two stupid fighters are prime targets for a charm monster). They unexpactedly made it, because they made every single will save five times in a row...
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Boden Blagden
Here for a while
(3/11/03 6:10 am)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon - to a Vampire!
I think capturing the PC that stays behind is a good idea. Although it might tick the player off. I will tell him what has happened to him way before the game when he returns. I think I will have Hedrack put him in the prison in the Outer Fane. That is a really nasty thing to do to a player, but it is something a bad guy would do. They say it is no fair to attsck when they are asleep, but it is a totally evil tactic.
As far as the sage and mage and priests, Chat would have to kill them in their sleep as well. That would be a lot of dead people. He might even kill the guy that sells them most of their goods. This would just tick off the PCs and they would rush into the mines trying to kill everyone.
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Taxman66
Here for a while
(3/11/03 6:38 am)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon - to a Vampire!
Might tick the player off? I know if I was playing a character and he got bushwacked with no opportunity to avoid it (i.e. it happens completely off screen) I'd be finding a new DM.
Also whoose to say that Chat is completely successfull? Even if he is, and kills some high priests and well regarded sages in a city this can backfire so easily. Its even worse if he isn't completely successfull. You don't think the authorities (both civil and clergy) won't get involved and use powerful magic to find out just what the heck is going on? Gimme a break. This idea sounds pretty dumb for a cult that wants to remain secrative. What better way to open a can of powerfull NPC investigation and whoopass than to start targetting prestigous well knowns. Additionally once the party proves who is responsible (and I don't see how you can truly avoid it and be fair at the same time) there will be much more high powered NPCs willing to help the PCs.
Taxman
"It takes an uncommon mind to think of these things, Hobbes." - Calvin
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Boden Blagden
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(3/11/03 6:47 am)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon - to a Vampire!
"As to D'Gran, I could easily see him try and take on Skassik the Blackguard in a bid for Fire Temple Champion. The result would be specatcular."
Siobharek, How do you suggests I go about dong this. have a fight between the two to see who is stronger. Have them try to kill each other. What would you do exactly?
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Siobharek
Still here? Wow.
(3/11/03 7:27 am)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon - to a Vampire!
Quote:
I know if I was playing a character and he got bushwacked with no opportunity to avoid it (i.e. it happens completely off screen) I'd be finding a new DM.
I'd roll for it. Use the PCs' Listen score (with a -5 - -10 for being asleep) to hear Chatrilon, then apply the coup de grace, modified for it being an incapacitating attack. If possible, I'd run it with the player.
Bootom line is, I wouldn't care if the player was absent - it's the character that matters. As I understand it, the PC is working on magic. That is, he's not just watching the horses or suffers a case of the dungeon runs, he's actually staying somewhere doing something useful.
Quote:
This idea sounds pretty dumb for a cult that wants to remain secrative. What better way to open a can of powerfull NPC investigation and whoopass than to start targetting prestigous well knowns.
Which is why I also suggested targetting dependants. Knock off Joe Sage, but stay away from His Holiness and target His Holiness' secret lover in stead. And who's to say if Chat is succesful? The DM, provided he can make a sufficiently good plan for Chatrilon. Assume that the bad guys are succesful until the good guys start showing an interest and making an effort - then we bring out the opposed rolls!
Boden Blagden, I'd suggest that D'Gran is allowed to stay, Then he begins provoking Skassik claiming that he (D'Gran) would make a better champion. And then I'd run the fight. Personally, I think D'Gran would win, thanks to the cone of cold. But I haven't run the numbers, so I'm not sure. Either way, it would make for a dynamic setting. The PCs will either find D'Gran's head on a pole or Skassik's hide around D'Gran's neck. Fun! 
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
madfox
Still here? Wow.
(3/11/03 7:37 am)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon - to a Vampire!
It will be a matter of comparing the benefits to the downsides of killing those sages and the type of campaign you are running. The first question you should ask is wether How hmuch would those sages conclude based on the information of the PCs and the keys? Remember, the memory of the temple of Elemental Evil is rather fresh and while these keys cannot be traced back to the cult of Tharizdun, it can be traced back to the Temple of Elemental Evil. If this knowledge pose a greater threat to the security of the Temple of Elemental Evil then their deaths would, the choice is easily made. Besides, the cultists fully believe they will release Tharizdun very soon now, so their tactics will be to delay opposition, not prevent it for all eternity. This is especially true when the PCs are ready to enter the Outer Fane. Anyway, in my campaign the cult has made very sure the official authorities are to darn busy with other things to worry about some obscure cult that form no obvious direct threat.
Recently I did a bit of research on how useful divinations are in trying to locate a murderer for a 9th lvl group. If the murderer takes real good care it is virtually impossible to find and arrest him. The sole exception is when the authorities (or PCs) have got a pretty good idea where to look. The best spell is commune, but since it is limited to yes/no questions and costs xp it is rather expensive to use. Besides, a smart murderer would make the body dissapear or make it look like an accident. Authorities must be really suspicious before they start using high power spells in their investigations. Just make it look some other evil cult was behind it and you can be sure the authorities will not look any further.
Personally, I think a lot more should happen before the authorities would send in real powerful allies into the CRM, especially if the cult has been doing their work well. In Greyhawk stirring up the war with Iuz and the tension with Celene are good methods to ensure this. In my campaign it happens to be a horde of gnolls and a civil war. You will be surprised how much a succubus can achieve when she puts her mind to it (and due to some stupid acts of my PCs in a previous adventure the cult has got TWO succubis in their service)
Edited by: madfox at: 3/11/03 7:40:51 am
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Boden Blagden
Here for a while
(3/11/03 7:55 am)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon - to a Vampire!
If I capture the Wizard what should I do with his Pseudo-dragon familiar. That thing has been posing me problems anyway.
Yeah, direct assault on high priests or well known sages would not be in the cults best interest. Ofcourse Chat could always try to implement the local thieves guild in the murders by using a particular poison that he knows they like to use. And he could just target their frieds and family.
I have been thinking about having a fang dragon menace the territory, so the authorities at Ridgeford are off trying to deal with that situation.
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SSShadowcat7
Here for a while
(3/11/03 9:00 am)
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Leave an absent player alone
I also don't think that you should tamper too much with a PC whose player is absent. So what if he's off making magic items...it still takes time in the game world, so when he comes back and only one day of game time has passed he still has to sit around waiting for the rest of the party to return from wherever they are.
A big part of our jobs as DMs is making the game fun...which means keeping the players happy (as well as ouselves, of course). Sometimes that means not doing things that your NPCs most likely would do.
I agree with the above poster. If I was a player and couldn't make a session and then something happened to my character which made him die or be captured (really pretty much the same thing) and taken out of the game I'd seriously reconsider playing in that game. Where's the fairness in that? Sure, it may be a great tactic for the bad guys, but if it hurts your game it doesn't do any good.
Who wants to come back to the game after being gone a session and told, "I know you worked really hard on building your character and have played him for months and months now, but while you were gone he was captured and nobody knows where he is. Roll up a new character to play until your other one can be found, if he ever is."
Even playing it out one on one with the player is iffy, but a better bet. If you want to go this route I'd say discuss it with the player alone. Don't give everything away, but mention that since his character is alone he may be the target of enemies. Something like that.
Also, it depends on how you've run the campaign up until now. Do things like this happen often? Are the players aware that their enemies will take steps like hitting them when they're alone? If the players are not prepared for something like that, or if you've never hinted or indicated that things like that could happen, then you're looking for trouble with them.
It sounds like I'm advocating babying your players all the time, but that's not the case. I'm all for being brutal and realistic. I'm just trying to look at it from a player's point of view as well as a DMs.
In the end, of course, you know your players and your game the best. I'm sure you know what would and wouldn't work for your game. Good luck.
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Boden Blagden
Here for a while
(3/11/03 10:01 am)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon
Yeah, messing with someones character when they are gone might be bad. Although I do know this guy pretty well he might go along with the capturing of his character for the game, but he might want something in return. Ofcourse he does try to manipulate the rules while using his character. Especially when creating magic items.
I could still have the attack on him and have him almost die, or I could just have him follow the other PCs and find out about Lareth.
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smetzger
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(3/11/03 10:09 am)
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Psuedo Dragon Familiar
Have Chat kill the familiar but leave the Wizard alone, except for ruining whatever MI the Wizard was working on.
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Siobharek
Still here? Wow.
(3/11/03 10:19 am)
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Re: Psuedo Dragon Familiar
Or have him capture the wizard but the familiar escapes. That way, the dragon can lead the other PCs to his captured master - who hasn't been smuggled out of Ridgeford yet because of the increased security due to a raash of murders among the town's intelligentsia.
So the master is hidden in a nasty cellar, right next to the local thieves' guild or the neighbourhood Secret Shrine of Evil (TM), who gets implicated - and killed by the PCs.
Voilá, Chatrilon has fun, the player has fun because he gets to play the familiar a little more actively than he uses to, and he doesn't get a freebie load of creating items in reward for not showing up.
And killing the familiar is IMHO as bad as offing the PC.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Boden Blagden
Here for a while
(3/11/03 10:43 am)
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Re: Psuedo Dragon Familiar
I have it. A secret shrine to the god of thievery. The leader of the local thieves guild is a cleric of the god of thievery. He likes to use black lotus extract when disposing of people. Chatrilon knows this and uses some on a few of the local sages and maybe a priest. this all points back to the thieves guild and everyone is in search of them, but no one knows where their hideout is. When the dragon escapes he is able to find the PCs when they return. Chat has managed to place the wizard in a place right next to the local thieves guild. To get to the wizard though they have to go through the guild.
Now all I have to do is create a hideout for the thieves guild.
How do you think the high archy of the guild should look. I figure a bunch of low level rogues and a few cleric/rogues. This migt be really intersting. Ofcourse it might boost them up to where their fights in the CRM aren't as challenging.
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yardsale
Looking around
(3/11/03 9:01 pm)
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Re: Thieves Guild
If you are worried that the guild will build them up, make it a cake walk. This will (a) contrary to the evidence, make them wonder if the guild really COULD pull us the murders, and (b) give your players a chance to kick a little @#$%.
Later, they will find evidence that they implicated and murdered the wrong people....
Yardsale
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Siobharek
Still here? Wow.
(3/11/03 11:24 pm)
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Re: Thieves Guild
That last idea was brilliant. Forcing the players to think and all.
In a Dragon mag a while back, Andy Collins laid out the rules for building an organization. If you have that magazine, that might help you build your guild.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
madfox
Still here? Wow.
(3/12/03 1:08 am)
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Re: Thieves Guild
Then try to do your best in making the wizard actually believe he has been kidnapped by the thieves guild as well. Perhaps Chatrilon convinces the actual thieves guild to kidnap the wizard. They might want to force the wizard to craft items for them or they somehow believe the wizard is doing criminal things without their permission? That way, the players might actually perceive it as a nice side track that has little to do with the main plot. It forms a nice distraction from the general plot line. Though I am not sure, if your players need it as much as mine when they have been focussing too long on one plot.
You should also realize that crimelords in general do not like to be associated with crimes that they did not commit, especially when it draws a lot of heat to them. Of course, when your crimelord already has a real bad reputation, then he probably cares much less. One final thing, make sure there is an actual reason for the Thieves Guild to kill the local intelligentia. If you watch detectives and mysteries on TV, you will know that people need to know the motivations behind an act before they truly can believe somebody to be behind it. An insane crimelord would change this of course, though even insane people tend to have twisted reasons for doing something.
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Boden Blagden
Here for a while
(3/12/03 5:49 am)
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Re: Thieves Guild
I created a smaller guild that is allowed to use the larger thieves guilds torture room called the Dungeon. Either Chat or the smaller guild has captured the wizard and places him there. This place is not in the hideout of the thieves guild but it is close, and it is hidden also.
That si a good point by madfox though. Why would the thieves guild start killing off the local intelligentia? Maybe it is known that one of them is in to them for some gambling money. The thieves guild has never come to collect. Chat makes it look like they did, but not only was he killed but also his friends and family. It could be like the mob.
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Boden Blagden
Here for a while
(3/12/03 7:15 pm)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon
Something I just thought of. When Chatrilon captures the wizard he is going to automatically take all of his stuff. Now the wizard has a lot of stuff. I will tell you now if you think the module doesn't give enough stuff to give your PC you are wrong. The Wizard has been making items and he has helped a higher leveled wizard make him a headband of intelect +3. He has a cloak of resistance +3, bracers of armor +3, a glove of spectral hand (made by him), a bunch of scrolls, a few spellbooks, and some other stuff. I was thinking of having Chat leave something of these behind. I know without those spellbooks the wizard is screwed though. It is a rough line to do this to someones character. I have taken stuff away from characters before, but they knew it was going to happen before I did it.
What would be a good idea to do with his stuff?
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Siobharek
Still here? Wow.
(3/13/03 12:17 am)
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Re: Changing Chatrilon
Well, if Chatrilon is gonna smuggle an unconscious body through the streets of Ridgeford, he may have to leave some of the equipment behind.
And what equipment he does get may be filched by the thieves once he's gone.
But... a "headband of intellect +3"?? As I understand it, those bad boys only come in +2, +4, and +6. That is, equal numbers just as all other ability increases.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
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