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Cordo Crowfoot
Here for a while
(3/17/03 2:15 am)
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Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
My group will be attacking the fire temple in a game this Thursday. They will be doing so along with the water temple (Nilbool and Urlurg's group).
They have been told to enter through the south gate. I would like to give them a short tour of the water temple, to weird them out and foreshadow any later conflict with them, but it seems difficult for them to get there since boats can't travel under the bridges (that's the case, right?) I am guessing they will take a boat from area 91, and meet up with Nilbool and Urlurg's group in 134. Or maybe they could transfer to a boat there that would take them into the water temple and then head back.
This will be their first temple attack, they cleared the main gate and the western bridge area. Three of them are level 8 and two are level 7. Although the fire temple is average CR 9, I think they will be ok since they have the others with them. I could always postpone the attack if it is too dangerous for them now (with the excuse Nilbool didn't get the scrolls in time), but it is one of the player's last game day before he moves back to the States, and I want to have a memorable session.
I'm looking for any advice, suggestions, fire temple reaction time-chains, etc. that people might have.
A couple of specific questions...
1) Terjon is with the group. How do you think they would react to this person using divine magic? I would assume they couldn't tell he was lawful good unless he was seen casting a [good] descriptor spell, although they might wonder who exactly he worships. Any repercussions for Terjon if he does decide to disguise himself by wearing an EEE holy symbol?
2) Blix is using Festrath's +1 curved short sword. I decided Mooliwik (the only one who has seen Blix so far) didn't recognize it but that Nilbool certainly will when he sees it drawn.  I figure they deserve this as the note in Festrath's pocket makes it clear he is from the water temple - and I think they have forgotten about it. I figure I will have Nilbool ask him where they got it, and just file that away for later use as the attack on the Fire Temple is too important. (They are convinced the party isn't working for Fire since they have been attacking the Western bridge, killed D'Gran and Tippesh, who was close to Tessimon IMC.)
"They were immediately and absolutely recognizable as adventurers. They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stripped of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came... They were scum who died violent deaths, hanging on to a certain cachet among the impressionable through their undeniable bravery and their occasionally impressive exploits" China Mieville, Perdido Street Station Edited by: Cordo Crowfoot at: 3/17/03 2:29:07 am
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Cordo Crowfoot
Here to stay
(3/18/03 10:09 pm)
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Re: Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
(insert pitiful cry for help and attention)
Also can someone remind me what the save for the altar is supposed to be? I've seen it discussed before but can't find it.
Edited by: Cordo Crowfoot at: 3/18/03 10:20:46 pm
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Siobharek 
Still here? Wow.
(3/19/03 1:34 am)
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Re: Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
When I prepped my fire temple assault, I found that the major problem was having Tessimon handle it alone for a while.
Unless the party is really good, noise from the fight with the salamander guards will alert Firre and Tess. Note, BTW, that the kuo-toa are woefully incompetent to deal with the salamanders, due to their DR. IMC, Nilbool held back, not wanting to waste spells on the salamanders. If the PCs get too feisty, he might cast some spells, but that will hasten his departure.
I handled the Fire Temple fight wrong. My players got too easy a combat, mostly because they could dictate the terms of the fight (and I forgot the unhallow effect).
In hindsight, I would have Tessimon and Firre hear the fight with the guards (they did), and run hell for leather into the Temple proper. There, Tessimon gets on the altar and raises it to her hideout, where she starts buffing.
Meanwhile, Firre continues sprinting to alert Aelrynth the sorcerer and the fighters there. One of the fighters runs to get Zert and Skassik - or Zert might be in the area already - while Firre begins buffing.
When the PCs burst in, a sound burst (from Tessimon, alter her spell selection if she doesn't have one) alerts the temple forces as far down as the rasts - the elven fighters to the north and the rasts won't be a part of this combat: It's gonna be tricky enough as it is. Tessimon won't be visible, unless somelone looks up and disbelieves the illusion, and the sound burst will also bring on the skeletons.
I'm really sorry, but I don't have a time line. You'll need to establish how long it will take Firre to get to the sorcerer (6 rounds, IIRC), how long it will take for the fighters there to reach the temple (3 rds), how long it will take Zert and Skassik to get there (??), and how long it will take for Tessimon to buff up and descend with the altar.
Concrete questiuons:
1) I simply don't see Terjon wearing an EEE symbol. So someone with a decent Knowledge (religion) score might identify his symbol of St. Cuthbert, but so what? He'll be betrayed in the end (see below)
2) Blix using Festrath's sword might elicit a reaction from Nilbool. And it might not. After all, Festrath was a filthy human, so who cares?
And now, the betrayal:
I gave Nilbool a scroll of Teleport. Once the disintegrate has been fired, he and the monitor will 'port out, leaving the kuo-toa warriors and the PCs to fry.
As to the altar's saves: If Tessimon gets on the altar, I'd say it was sufficiently attended to get her saves. Otherwise, I honestly don't know.
Hope that helps.
Sayonara
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Cordo Crowfoot
Here to stay
(3/19/03 5:28 am)
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Re: Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
Thanks Siobharek, this is really helpful!
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Abelard
Still here? Wow.
(3/20/03 10:40 pm)
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Re: Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
Aargh, too late I guess you've had the session... but re: the altar's saving throw: it's better than Tessimon's (I think - maybe not for all 3?). It was created by a wish, so it's CL 18. That gives it 2 + 9 = +11 on all saves. Since the scroll has a DC of 19, that gives it slightly better than even odds of surviving.
IMC, the elf ranger/monk stood on it and beat it with her club. Repeatedly. Destroying the altar first, then the platform, taking about 10 rounds with flurries of blows, and making a ridiculous number of Fort saves - eight or nine? And missed none. She's impossible to kill.
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Siobharek
Still here? Wow.
(3/20/03 11:59 pm)
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Re: Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
Uhm... She didn't flurry with her club, did she? This is nitpicking of teh highest order, but AFAIK she can only flurry with kama, nunchaku, and (oh, what's the 3rd monk's weapon?!).
Not that it matters much, it being a club and all. Still...
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Abelard
Still here? Wow.
(3/21/03 12:18 pm)
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Re: Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
Yes, it's a house rule/special exception for this character. She is a "wild child" type who grew up in the wilderness, so we changed her "monk weapons" to more natural/primitive types instead of the kama, nunchaku, etc.
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Cordo Crowfoot
Here to stay
(3/21/03 5:03 pm)
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Re: Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
Actually no I didn't hold the fire temple attack in my last session so your input was in time. That was due to two things:
1) One of three players who was going to show up had a fight with his wife about playing that day, and cancelled, even though myself and someone else had specifically taken off work to play (since it was one other player's last day)
2) Another player forgot to bring important game equipment from his house (including megamat pens and the myriad of figures we use)
So when the players arrived at the south gate, they were told that divinations done the previous day were not auspicious for the attack, and that the water temple would contact them again. Cheesy but I didn't want to run a major event like that with only two players (one for whom it was the last session) and using makeshift gaming equipment.
Instead they moved down through the orc area south of the western bridge complex. The orcs had evacuated just in time the previous night, having detected that the fire bridge was empty. So they explored the dwarven temple, which the rogue had found scouting invisibly the previous day.
If the altar has a +11 fortitude save, it is unlikely that Nilbool will successfully disintegrate it. He has to make a d20+5 level check on a DC12 scroll, so fails on a 1 - 6 or 30% chance of failure.
If the alter has a +11 fortitude save it will beat the DC19 save on an 8 or above, meaning there is only a 35% chance of failure there.
So assuming that Nilbool gets off the disintegrate with a true strike eliminating his chances of missing, chances of success are 70% X 35% or 24.5%.
I did draw up some reaction time lines which I will post here later in case people want to use them.
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Abelard
Still here? Wow.
(3/21/03 6:37 pm)
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Re: Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
Hey, if it was easy, the Water Temple would have done it a long time ago, right? Of course, you can always fudge the rolls if you like.
Also, I wouldn't worry too much about needing True Strike to hit the altar with disintegrate. I forget the exact AC of the altar, but given that it's an object (0 Dex), it's pretty dang low...
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 Infiniti2000
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(3/21/03 8:07 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
"I did draw up some reaction time lines which I will post here later in case people want to use them."
When you work up the reaction timeline (and please do!), please post it to the Reaction Chains Revisited thread where the others are. I will collect them and reformat them into a Word document and put them on the site.
Altar save...isn't the % success 70% * 65% = 45.5%? This makes it almost even odds. I think you misprinted 35 for 65.
As for the AC, I put it at 1. Base 10 Dex -5 Gargantuan -4. You could also choose Colossal (30x30 size) which is -8 or Huge (wagon-sized, but that seems too small) which is -2. If you feel that Tessimon has the platform "in hand" then it gets her Dex bonus and any of her deflection bonuses, and an additional +5. Nilbool has a +5 attack roll (all BAB) for ranged attacks with spells, so I figure it succeeds on anything but a 1. No true strike needed. 
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Cordo Crowfoot
Here to stay
(3/22/03 2:41 am)
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Re: Attacking the fire temple with the water temple
Ah yes, I reversed failure/success on that one. Duh... 
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