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WarrenWright
Looking around
(3/22/03 5:42 pm)
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Howler Questions
Here is my question on the Howler:
Does it automatically get to hit (with no attack rolls) with 1d4 quills after a successful bite attack?
Or, Are the 1d4 quills simply a second attack that can be taken ONLY when the howler does a full attack action against someone in his threatened area?
-Warren
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 Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/22/03 7:21 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Howler Questions
A full attack action is not needed for the quill attacks. When biting, whether or not it is successful, the howler gets 1d4 quill attacks and must make a separate attack roll for each quill.
I say this because the "Attacks" section does not specify "and" and the section in Quills says "while biting". It gives an attack bonus for quills so that must succeed at an attack roll.
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Abelard
Still here? Wow.
(3/22/03 7:26 pm)
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Re: Howler Questions
Well, the quills definitely get attack rolls - they have an attack bonus listed. It's the bite attack bonus -5, just like you'd expect for a creature without Multiattack feat. So I treated it as requiring a full attack action to hit with the quills, and didn't allow it to use quills with AoO.
The howler shouldn't need to hit with the bite to attack with quills, by my reading.
You know, I also thought they all were directed at the target being bitten, but I think it would be okay in some cases to target some at other characters, if they were close.
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Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/22/03 8:57 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Howler Questions
Hmmm...it would be safer to assume a full attack action. In either case, does the howler get to choose the 1d4 targets or are they random? I'd say random, but then it might be the rider.
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ZansForCans 
Here for a while
(3/22/03 9:54 pm)
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Re: Howler Questions
I have a hard time using random opponents combined with an attack roll (i.e. something BAB-based), which I normally think of as requiring more concentration than just "thrashing". That kind of 'accidental' attack would seem to sit more with a save roll, but then AC is out of the picture. *shrug*
I guess along that line of reasoning, I was planning on keeping the quill attacks on the bite-attacked foe. The picture doesn't help much of course with all the quills pointing toward the rear... maybe they bristle and move forward more when it's angry? Of course the picture makes it very hard to understand how a rider would be comfortable on that thing at all!
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WarrenWright
Here for a while
(3/23/03 12:21 pm)
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Re: Howler Questions
I doubt they'll get that far tonight (they are just about to confront Lareth in Nulb), but if they do I think I'll treat the quill attacks as secondary attacks that are only possible on full attack actions.
It does seem strange to have a random (1d4) number of secondary attacks, but fits the description of how those attacks happen I suppose.
-Warren
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Abelard
Still here? Wow.
(3/23/03 2:32 pm)
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Re: Howler Questions
Actually, Infiniti might well be right about the lack of an "and" in the attack listing. You could play it as happening with any bite, even an AoO... I guess I didn't think about it too hard. I pretty much decided to treat them as secondary attacks as part of a full attack because it seemed too powerful otherwise (particularly the correctly advanced version).
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WarrenWright
Here for a while
(3/24/03 7:41 am)
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Re: Howler Questions
We had our session, and as I suspected we didn't get to Rastor even, much less the CRM.
I did however get to really smack some PCs with a buff'd and splat-book enhanced Lareth (thanks boards!).
Knocking the party cleric down to a 3 constitution with a wraith from the pirate ship wasn't bad either.
-Warren
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Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/24/03 7:49 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Howler Questions
Abelard, I'm thinking now that I'm not right about the use of "and". The athach doesn't use a conjunction either, but I'm sure he gets all of his attacks only in a full attack action. However, the question every DM will have to answer is whether they think the quills are part of the bite (and therefore likely shoot forward and only attack the victim) or not. If not, they only happen on a full attack action. If so, then it can still go either way, but prepared for player arguments. I think I'm going with them only be able to be used on a full attack action and only against the "bitee".
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