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raynbow
Here for a while
(3/29/03 7:47 am)
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Elemental gems
Does anyone know anything about the elemental power gems that are mentioned in the module? They are mentioned as fitting into the orbs, and their powers are given, but nowhere does it say what the current status of the gems is.
Have they been recovered? Which ones? Which orb are they in?
And most importantly, how can the PC's get out of the Fire Node without using an elemental gem?
The only way that is mentioned to get OUT is using the gems. But only one of the orbs can have the gem, since there only seems to be one, but if that's true, which orb? And how is the other NPC getting out of the Fire Node?
I'm just confused on the whole thing.
I think i'm going to put another teleporter in the entrance room of the Node that takes the PCs back to the temple.
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 Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/29/03 1:55 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Elemental gems
The fire elemental gem is in the Orb of Oblivion and in the hands of Maliskra in area 9 of the fire node. The other gems are with the glabrezu in area 8 of the recovered temple. The Orb of Silvery Death, which the PC's can find in the Black Cyst if they are lucky and smart, has no gems.
"And most importantly, how can the PC's get out of the Fire Node without using an elemental gem?"
You can use any means necessary to get back to the material plane. Examplea plane shift, gate, and wish. Specifically, teleport does not work (according to the original module).
"But only one of the orbs can have the gem, since there only seems to be one, but if that's true, which orb?"
The current orb that has the gem is the Orb of Oblivion and it is in Maliskra's hands. Chances are the party will need to kill her, and in so doing obtain the Orb and gem by which to return.
"And how is the other NPC getting out of the Fire Node?"
If you place anyone else in the fire node with Maliskra, she can transport them with her. Probably, though, you might consider giving the Orb to the Champion.
"I think i'm going to put another teleporter in the entrance room of the Node that takes the PCs back to the temple."
By this point, your group should definitely have the resources sufficient to transport themselves out of the fire node without the Orb+gem. Don't make it too easy on them. Also note that the original module specifically says that it is a security "feature" of the nodes that you need the Orb or power gem to leave the node (it allows use of only the power gem to escape).
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raynbow
Here for a while
(3/29/03 5:35 pm)
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Final thoughts
We played through this tonight, and they ended up plane shifting out. I had to have the demon (the talkative one) suggest this to them.
They had thought of the plane shift idea, but they honestly had no idea where they really were, so they had no idea what to memorize to get them out. They were considering several options before I basically clued them in about where they were.
They didn't have alot of time to play around because several of them weren't immune to heat and were therefore taking 60 damage an hour. They had just enough scrolls of elemental protection and healing to make it through one night, memorize planeshift, and get out.
It just seems like there are alot of things in this module that expect way to much knowledge of the original module sometimes. I've never played the original, and thus had no idea about the 'security feature' concept you mentioned.
As for using the orb to get out.... Well, my group used the talisman of ultimate good on Malisnar (sp?), so it was lost. But even if they HAD recovered it, I don't think they would have tried to use it. As soon as they pick it up, it's going to zap them, and they're going to have no idea how to go about using it, so they most likely wouldn't have risked playing around with it.
We're done with the module now, as of tonight, and we enjoyed it, but I think it definately had some flaws.
This isn't the first time I've felt like there were really tenuous connections that had to be made. There were alot of places where the party could become VERY lost as to what to do if they missed finding one piece of paper, or if they killed one NPC without talking to him, etc, etc, etc.
There was alot of really crucial information that was only given out in one specific way, and which could really be a gamestopper if the party missed it.
Anyhow,I did enjoy the module overall, but it could definately use some rewriting.
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Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(3/30/03 3:56 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Final thoughts
First, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Did you find this forum too late in the game? It probably would have helped tremendously to clear up some of the issues you had with it. I'm not saying it's flawless (clearly there are a number of errata that I can personally attest to), but the foundation of the module, the story, and the characters are awesome.
I wasn't even aware of the the idea that the Orb is required to get back to the recovered temple until you asked a question and I looked it up.  I'm sure there are other things and it's from people like you and others who have completed the module where the rest of us get help. Just reading through logs like Andorax, DMDan, and others helps a lot.
As for tenuous connections, I agree there are some, but suggestions have been offered here and there on how to tie things together better. Or, if not, then it would be a good thing to bring it up, so others can avoid the same problems. Anyhow, I hope you decide to stick around and perhaps offer more advice later. Writing up a longer "This is what I learned in my game" would be a great benefit to us all, and you would be forever immortalized for your efforts.
Regarding the Orb: the Orb is a major artifact and the Talisman is a minor artifact. I know this doesn't do you any good now, raynbow, but I would suggest not allowing the Talisman to affect the Orb. Sure, the evil cleric (in this case Maliskra) can be shafted to the center of the earth, but then maybe the Orb just drops to the closed up ground where the evil cleric was standing. Perhaps the Orb will reappear in the Black Cyst, in a nearby evil cleric's or demigod (like Imix) hands, or some other convenient location. If the Orb had all gems in it, Maliskra would actually be safe and could escape (immune to fire and earth, can plane shift, I'd ignore the 'physics' of the gravity well).
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SIERK
Here for a while
(3/30/03 7:21 pm)
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Re: Final thoughts
Has anyone filled out the end game wrapup? I mean, this is a pretty darn big climax. IC, Big plot to release Tharizdun has been thwarted, gods will be relieved. OOC, 10 levels worth spent getting here.
I was thinking about having some sort of god/avatar show up and thank them for their services, grant True Resurrections to any who perished, and maybe toss in a couple of wishes to each party member. Wishes aren't candy, but it seems like something this big deserves something that cool.
Thoughts?
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Grumgarr
Here for a while
(4/2/03 3:49 am)
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They won? OK, let's talk rewards.
There's the real possibility (IMC at least) of one PC getting three wishes from Zuggtmoy (it is three, isn't it, if they 'release' her spirit by dispelling the altar in the Tabernacle of Utter Darkness?)
I won't be handing out wishes to all, but the PCs don't really get much in the way of real-world accolade for saving the world (mostly because, well, 'who knew?' a la Buffy the Vampire Slayer).
I am in favour of a boon from the gods though for those who helped keep their nemesis secured.
Maybe a permanent, inherent luckstone effect?
Maybe an equivalent to the Luck domain power?
There won't be any avatar in my game (well, other than Iuz, but that's a whole other adventure), but they'll know that their efforts have not gone completely un-noticed.
Grumgarr
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SIERK
Here for a while
(4/2/03 1:32 pm)
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Re: They won? OK, let's talk rewards.
Quote:
I won't be handing out wishes to all, but the PCs don't really get much in the way of real-world accolade for saving the world
Which is exactly why I'm looking at some sort of god-granted boon.
And the last thing I want is to give just one player multiple wishes, since I try to keep things practically even between party members.
I do remember someone a while back who created an overpowered prestige class (one level only) which each completing party member got upon completion. Looked interesting, but not quite my thing.
Interesting thoughts about the Luck domain/luckstone effect. Kind of a "favored of the gods" type of thing. Hrm.
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Dragon Mage 1E
Here for a while
(4/4/03 7:00 am)
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Re: They won? OK, let's talk rewards.
I was concidering giving the PC's the Leadership Feat (if they want it) as a boon. IMC the public is aware of the threat of Elemental Evil (not big T). Once again EE has been defeated, this time at the hands of a new group of heroes, the PC's!
"What the curtains?" |
raynbow
Here for a while
(4/15/03 5:54 am)
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read and read again!
I just spent about an hour writing up suggestions for GM's about this module and EZ board ate it. I don't think I could write it all again if I tried.
Here is the short version.
Read, ALOT. Read forward, read backward. There are things you need to know to run page 100 that aren't written in the adventure until page 125.
Make sure your PC's are taking notes, if they aren't, give them handouts. This adventure is LONG and they won't remember important things 6 months later. Make sure EVERYTHING they are going to need to know later is written down by them or by you. If they aren't note taking have the NPC's leave letters about and make those letters into handouts, they NEED to have this stuff.
If your group never played the Original Temple of Elemental Evil, find it and read it, give them a write up summary of it. There are many times where knowledge of the Original Temple is assumed but not provided, especially in the final sections of the module.
Always be thinking ahead about how you are going to transition your PC's to the next section of the module. Most of the connections between areas require huge leaps of intuition or rely entirely on a single note or conversation. If your PC's miss the info be ready to give it to them again and again until they pick up on it.
There are lots of neat items in the temples that a cautious party are NEVER going to touch. They aren't going to sit in things, touch things, go into portals, wear things or use things that come from an evil temple unless they have a solid reason for doing so. In most cases this doesn't matter, but there are some items the PC's DO need. My group, for example, picked up every torch of revealing in the place. They had them identified, but that spell doesn't give you a real good idea of what they do. They ended up NEVER using one, and as a result they missed out on a LOT of stuff. If your PC's are cautious like this, hit them in the face with what the torches do. Have them find instructions, or have them get hints from the traitor in the fanes, or see someone using the torches to reveal something hidden.
Do the same thing with any of the other nifty devices you want your PC's to interact with.
If your PC's are the type to kill evil on sight, make sure you give them the information they are supposed to get from EVIL NPC's in another way.
I know I wrote alot more than this in my original note, but this is all I can think of now. Good luck.
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