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Xel565
Here for a while
(4/4/03 1:37 pm)
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Tentacle Rod and Casting Spells
First off I'd like to say I've had a lot of fun DMing this adventure. Now on to my question. If an NPC with a tentacle rod (let's say hedrack) uses the tentacle rod to grapple an opponent could he then cast a spell with the character still grappled on the next round? This is of course assuming that the PC doesn't escape the grapple.
That may have been a little confusing, so let me give a round by round summary.
1st: PC charges Hedrack, Hedrack grapples with tentacle rod
2nd: PC fails to escape tentacle rod, Hedrack casts spell (?)
Is this allowed, or would he have to let go of the tentacle rod to cast a spell?
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Cordo Crowfoot
Here to stay
(4/4/03 8:18 pm)
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Re: Tentacle Rod and Casting Spells
If his other hand was free he could cast a spell. Otherwise yes he would have to drop the tentacle rod.
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 Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(4/5/03 9:59 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Tentacle Rod and Casting Spells
The question I have about this is does it take a standard action on Hedrack's (or Tessimon's) part to have the tentacle rod function for the round? Each round that they are grappled, the tentacle rod does damage and if enough tentacles are attached, special abilities apply. For sake of balance, I don't think the wielder can do anything else if they want to keep the rod functioning. Otherwise, perhaps the tentacles are still grappling, but no attacks or special functions that round. I strongly suggest this, for consider what happens when your players get the tentacle rods. 
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Grumgarr
Here for a while
(4/7/03 5:19 am)
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tentacle rods and spellcasting
Well, it's a standard action to activate - this means you can move up to someone, get three attacks on them and grapple them, all while you're not grappled yourself.
If you had an extra action from Haste or some other effect, you could (in 3.0) cast a spell too, but normally you get a single Move (or MEA) and a Standard action.
If you make the Rod attack, that's your action for the round.
I think what you're asking though is 'on round 2, once a foe is grappled by the Rod, can Hedrack (or Tessimon etc.) then cast a spell (and is the foe still grappled by the Rod at this time). I'd have to say no.
On Hedrack's turn he can either have the Rod attack (using Hedrack's standard action for the round) or he can cast a spell.
If he casts a spell, the Rod releases its victim as it's inactive that round - and the spellcasting would provoke an AoO from the Rod's target unless he cast on the defensive or stepped back.
To allow the Rod to continue to grapple (which I think is the most effective part of its power, far better than mediocre damage and the low DC Slow effects) from round to round without requiring an action from the wielder is just too much IMO.
Grumgarr - who goes 'euoooooooo' every time a Tentacle Rod gets used.
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Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(4/7/03 5:46 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: tentacle rods and spellcasting
Yeah, that is what I meant, Grumgarr, and I agree with you. The tentacle rod will work best when the evil cleric has a few moments to himself or or herself with the one victim.
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Cordo Crowfoot
Here to stay
(4/7/03 8:34 am)
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I disagree
I don't know about that, spiritual weapon continues to attack after indicating a target, why wouldn't the rod continue to grapple if the target stayed in range or was already grappled by one tentacle?
Seems kinda weak otherwise, cause really, are they going to shut down their spell casting ability?
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Xel565
Here for a while
(4/7/03 10:14 am)
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I agree
Cordo, personally i agree with you. I would have to say that unless the cleric is going one on one with someone the tentacle rod is of very little use. Giving up Hedrack's or Tessimon's spell casting abilities to do very small amounts of damage and possibly slow someone is a poor trade off in a large group of foes. Now one on one, that's a different matter because of the ability to grapple your enemy without being grappled yourself. If you can't use spell casting with the tentacle rod, I don't see any reason to use it in fighting a group.
Xel
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Andorax
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(4/7/03 10:32 am)
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Re: I agree
My thinking on this...
The Tentacle Rod, in order to function, needs to be held. Thus, it takes up a hand.
It's been firmly established, time and again, that you only need one hand to cast.
Thus, you smack something with the Tentacle Rod and grapple it. Next turn, you transfer the rod to your shield hand (MEA or Free, depending on opinion), lose the benefit of your shield, and proceed to cast away with your now-freed primary hand.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
blakwind
Here for a while
(4/7/03 12:02 pm)
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Re: I agree
I agree with Andorax's interpretation. That's exactly how I've been running things IMC.
However, I'm not sure that this helps out Hedrack very much. From the SRD:
Quote:
Small Shield: A small shield's light weight lets a character carry other items in that hand (although the character cannot use weapons).
Large Shield: A large shield is too heavy to use the shield hand for anything else.
Isn't Hedrack using a large steel shield? If so, wouldn't he need to either drop it, or acquire a small shield in order to perform this trick?
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ZansForCans 
Here for a while
(4/7/03 1:03 pm)
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Re: I agree
Quote:
Isn't Hedrack using a large steel shield? If so, wouldn't he need to either drop it, or acquire a small shield in order to perform this trick?
Absolutely. I've almost forgotten about this a few times with the more generically heavily armored clerics. They have to stow/drop the shield or their weapon to cast. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs
Even with a small shield, I'd rule that he wouldn't get the shield's AC bonus while the rod is grappling (just like using the off-hand in combat with a buckler). He might not have to stow it though.
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Grumgarr
Here for a while
(4/8/03 5:40 am)
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the evil of tentacle rods
I see where you're coming from Andorax, but I've been ruling that the Rod is only active (e.g. continues to attack/grapple) if you will it (which is a standard action).
I don't know if it overpowers the rods too much to allow it to >maintain< a grapple (but not inflict damage or force saves vs. Slow) but activating the Rod in one round and then having it attack from that point on (while the 'wielder' gets to do whatever else) seems too much to me - I don't think the comparison to spiritual weapon really works - spiritual weapon gets to attack for damage - no big deal.
This baby gets to grapple your foe for you...which seems fine when the bad guys get to do it in one fight (the one where they're supposed to die) but when the PCs start to do it in >every< fight...
Having had that rant, the +9 grapple check isn't the end of the world...and it is another powerful incentive to use the weapon of the Dark God (but only if this carries conscience/campaign consequences of its own). IMC the rods get 'hungry' if they haven't fed for a while, and using them feels gooood and >is< addictive - but they're going to draw attention as pretty obviously vile items wherever the bearer goes.
BAck on topic - Are you guys going with 1 SA to activate (=pick a target like Spiritual Weapon) then it just goes nuts so long as it stays in hand?
Grumgarr - who is aware he worries too much about these things at times
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Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(4/8/03 6:30 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: the evil of tentacle rods
I agree Grumgarr, and that's what I meant about "sake of balance." I'd be interested in seeing how powerful it is in the player's hands if the tentacle rod operates on its own after the first round. Anyone have any stories about this? Of course, if you give the rods side effects (such as evil thoughts and whatnot, which are not listed in the module), then that might compensate a little, but I don't plan on it.
Just think about a one-on-one. A single PC (say a 10th level fighter) enters combat against Tessimon. The fighter goes first and beats down Tessimon. Tessimon then uses the rod and grapples the fighter. From there on, the fighter is likely toast. Not only does the rod grapple and damage each round, but Tessimon can cast spells without penalty each round as well, doing a full round action (like pulling out a potion and drinking it), or other cool things. Tessimon will win hands down. Somehow I just don't think the rod was meant to be that powerful.
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Cordo Crowfoot
Here to stay
(4/9/03 4:58 pm)
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Re: the evil of tentacle rods
I made a rough assumption that a 10th level fighter would have a grapple check of probably at least +15 versus the rod's +9, and then ran some quick numbers. Each tentacle of the rod would have about a 23% chance of grappling successfully, which means that the 10th level fighter has about a 46% chance of not being grappled at all.
Even if he were grappled, on his own turn he would have two chances to escape from the grapple, and if he escaped on the first attack could attack the rod holder with his second attack.
If it's a fighter chances are they are going to make the fortitude save versus slow, as fortitude is their strong save. With that in mind, and the lesser rod at a cost of 21,000gp, I don't think it is overpowered to allow the rod to continue to grapple.
A wand of hold person is 4,500gp after all, and goes after a fighter's weak save.
Edited by: Cordo Crowfoot at: 4/9/03 7:42:46 pm
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Infiniti2000
Still here? Wow.
(4/10/03 9:35 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: the evil of tentacle rods
Well, okay, you got me there. Maybe I should have said wizard, rogue, or cleric. Someone with a lower BAB. Remember that you have to break out of each tentacle separately, so it requires a separate grapple check/escape artist check (based on iterative BAB) each round for each tentacle.
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Xel565
Here for a while
(4/11/03 9:36 am)
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Monte's Response
Well, since I figured we wouldn't reach a unanimous decision on this topic I went and emailed Monte to get his opinion. Here is what he said:
Quote:
I'd allow the rod to continue to hold a grappled foe, but not do anything else without the direction of the wielder.
So I assume that the foe is still grappled, but no damage or effects such as slow would apply.
Xel 
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