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Andorax
Verrik
(7/9/03 8:46 am)
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Re: All the statblocks?
Cordo, if you could start up the Assignments thread anyways, just a place holder? It'll let the Part 2 leads post theirs as well (even if just a placeholder), and then let me post mine.

Edit is our friend.


Oh, and another note. Apparently, the 3.5 DMG is going to have a revised statblock. I want to see what it looks like, and it may well replace what I posted above...we'll just have to see what they have. I still think that getting the statblocks pre-typed is a VERY useful exercise, and am well on my way through Part 3's.



A further item. From my entry of statblocks, I noticed a couple of things. Just "heads up" items. Here's Dugart...not fully converted yet, just with a couple of things from 3.5 I know from the top of my head:

Quote:

Dugart: Male half-orc Clr10/Doomdreamer2; CR 12; Medium-size humanoid (half-orc); HD 10d8+40 plus 2d8+8; hp 101; Init +4; Spd 20 ft.; AC 24 (touch 10, flat-footed 24); Atk +14 melee (1d8+6, +2 morningstar); FAtk +14/+9 (morningstar, as above); Grapple +13; SA Dark lore, rebuke undead 2/day; SQ Darkvision 60 ft., doomdreamer secret, insanity; AL CE; SV Fort +11, Ref +5, Will +11; Str 19, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 11, Wis 18, Cha 9.

Skills and Feats: Concentration +12, Knowledge (arcane) +11, Knowledge (religion) +11; Brew Potion, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Necromancy).

If Dugart has two rounds to prep, he will have bull’s strength and endurance in effect upon himself for their duration (12 minutes). With bull’s strength and endurance: hp 125; Atk +16 melee (1d8+8), FAtk +16/+11 melee (1d8+8); SV Fort +13; Str 23, Con 22. Concentration +14.

Dark Lore (Su): 1/day speak a creature’s secret. Target must make a WIll save (DC 17) or be stunned for 1d3 rounds.

Doomdreamer Secret: Demon’s Name (10 HD demon comes with lesser planar ally)

Insanity (Ex): Insanity score 6. Wis 24 for bonus spells and DCs; Wis 12 for all other Wis-based checks.

Spells Prepared (6/8/7/7/5/5/4; bas DC = 17 + spell level): 0—cure minor wounds, detect magic (2), light, mending, resistance; 1st—bane, cause fear~, command (2), doom, protection from good, random action*, shield of faith; 2nd—bull’s strength (2), endurance, hold person, silence, spiritual weapon, Tharizdun’s touch*; 3rd—bestow curse, cure serious wounds (2), dispel magic, magic vestment, protection from elements, rage*; 4th—cure critical wounds, freedom of movement, greater magic weapon, neutralize poison, unholy blight*; 5th—bolts of bedevilment*, flame strike, slay living~, summon monster V, true seeing; 6th—etherealness, harm~, phantasmal killer*, word of recall..
* Domain spell. Deity: Tharizdun. Domains: Evil (cast evil spells at 13th level); Madness (1/day add Insanity score to Wis-based roll).
~ Because of Spell Focus (Necromancy), the base DC against these spells is 18 + spell level

Posessions: +2 morningstar, +2 full plate armor, +2 light fortification large steel shield, helm of comprehending languages and reading magic, divine scroll of harm, heal and raise dead, 2 vials of acid, 54 gp, holy symbol (obex), robes, iron key (opens trunk 3 in area 20 of the Recovered Temple).

Dugart is typically found in the Recovered Temple, area 15 (Page 141).



The things to note here:

1) MANY clerics have a "buff block" listing their Bull's Strength and Endurance-enhanced stats. These spells have been chopped down to 1 minute/level, and set to a static +4 bonus. Thus, these statblocks need to be reworded. Please use my above format for consistancy.

2) Spell Focus (Necromancy), being a pre-requisite for Doomdremaers, shows up a lot. Spell Focus only grants a +1 to DCs now, not +2.

3) If you've any question about where to place an NPC who's "typically located at", look for the character's name and hps in the room description. Universally, this only appears in one place.

4) I don't have a cross symbol on my keyboard. I would like to suggest we universally adopt ~ as a substitute, and our master-editor can do a global search-and-replace at his leisure.



Just trying to present some "heads up" items, especially since some of you might be able to get a start on this stuff before me, and I'd like us all to be pulling in the same direction.

Edited by: Andorax at: 7/9/03 9:13 am
Siobharek 
Verrik
(7/9/03 11:47 am)
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ezSupporter

Re: All the statblocks?
That's an amazing setup, Andorax. I look forward to begin working on it.

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/9/03 5:10 pm)
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Re: All the statblocks?
I should have the core 3.5 books tomorrow, so I'll post what I find in the DMG.

I'll try to get my assignment page up tonight Japan time.

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/10/03 7:00 am)
Reply
Re: 3.5e abbreviated stat block from DMG
Sample 10th-Level NPC Cleric: Human Clr 10; Medium humanoid; HD 10d8+20; hp 68; Init -1; Spd 20 ft.; AC 22, touch 10, flat-footed 22; Base Atk +7; Grp +8; Atk +8 melee (1d8+2, +1 morningstar) or +6 ranged (1d8+1/19-20, light crosswbow with +1 crossbow bolts); Full Atk +8/+3 melee (1d8+2, +1 morningstar) or +6 ranged (1d8+1/19-20, light crossbow with +1 crossbow bolts); SA turn undead 4/day; SQ -;AL NG; SV Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +11; Str 13, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 19, Cha 12.
Skills and Feats: Concentration +15, Listen +17, Spellcraft +13; Brew Potion, Combat Casting, Lightning Reflexes, Scribe Scroll, Weapon Focus (morningstar).
Cleric Spells Prepared (6/6/6/5/5/3; save DC 14 + spell level): 0-detect magic, guidance (2), light, resistance (2); 1st-bane (2), bless (2), sanctuary*, shield of faith; 2nd-aid, bull's strength (2), cure moderate wounds*, hold person, sound burst; 3rd-dispel magic (2), magic circle against evil, protection from energy, searing light; 4th-divine power, greater magic weapon, restoration (2), spell immunity*; 5th-flame strike, spell resistance*, true seeing.
*Domain spell. Domains: Healing (cast healing spells at +1 caster level), Protection (protective ward grants +10 resistance bonus on next save 1/day)
Possessions: +1 full plate, +1 heavy steel shield, ring of protection +1, periapt of Wisdom +2, masterwork morningstar, light crossbow, 10 bolts, 2 scrolls of cure light wounds, wooden holy symbol, 6 torches.

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/10/03 7:07 am)
Reply
Re: 3.5e abbreviated stat block from DMG
One problem I've already noticed is that a small amount of space is inserted before the start of the stat block, and before each paragraph (in the case of the above stat-block before "Sample 10th-Level", "Skills and Feats", "*Domain spell", and "Possessions"). It looks good on the page.

EZ board doesn't display these spaces in the post, but they still seem to be displayed in the code. So I guess we should ask people to post the code only, or both. I guess it depends on the best method to move it over, but since EZBoard eats the spaces cut and paste into a rich text editor means you will have to add spaces.

A slight annoyance if you want to be 100% accurate with the styles is that spells are all written in italic, but if you have memorized multiple spells, the (2) is in normal text.

I'll post the stat block in EZ code below as well to save work for others.

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/10/03 7:10 am)
Reply
3.5e stat block in ezCode
[b]Sample 10th-Level NPC Cleric:[/b] Human Clr 10; Medium humanoid; HD 10d8+20; hp 68; Init -1; Spd 20 ft.; AC 22, touch 10, flat-footed 22; Base Atk +7; Grp +8; Atk +8 melee (1d8+2, [i]+1 morningstar[/i]) or +6 ranged (1d8+1/19-20, light crosswbow with [i]+1 crossbow bolts[/i]); Full Atk +8/+3 melee (1d8+2, [i]+1 morningstar[/i]) or +6 ranged (1d8+1/19-20, light crossbow with [i]+1 crossbow bolts[/i]); SA turn undead 4/day; SQ -;AL NG; SV Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +11; Str 13, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 19, Cha 12.
[i]Skills and Feats:[/i] Concentration +15, Listen +17, Spellcraft +13; Brew Potion, Combat Casting, Lightning Reflexes, Scribe Scroll, Weapon Focus (morningstar).
[i]Cleric Spells Prepared[/i] (6/6/6/5/5/3; save DC 14 + spell level): 0-[i]detect magic, guidance[/i] (2), [i]light, resistance[/i] (2); 1st-[i]bane[/i] (2), [i]bless[/i] (2), [i]sanctuary*, shield of faith;[/i] 2nd-[i]aid, bull's strength[/i] (2), [i]cure moderate wounds*, hold person, sound burst;[/i] 3rd-[i]dispel magic[/i] (2), [i]magic circle against evil, protection from energy, searing light;[/i] 4th-[i]divine power, greater magic weapon, restoration[/i] (2), [i]spell immunity*;[/i] 5th-[i]flame strike, spell resistance*, true seeing.[/i]
*Domain spell. [i]Domains:[/i] Healing (cast healing spells at +1 caster level), Protection (protective ward grants +10 resistance bonus on next save 1/day)
[i]Possessions: +1 full plate, +1 heavy steel shield, ring of protection +1, periapt of Wisdom +2,[/i] masterwork morningstar, light crossbow, 10 bolts, 2 scrolls of [i]cure light wounds,[/i] wooden holy symbol, 6 torches.

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/10/03 7:12 am)
Reply
Re: 3.5e stat block in ezCode
Aw darn, even posting in "Plain Text" deletes the two spaces at the beginning of the proper places in the statblocks.

ZansForCans 
Faen
(7/10/03 10:29 am)
Reply
Re: 3.5e stat block in ezCode
Know what? They are there, you just can't see them! I don't quite understand how this is working, but I copy & pasted your formated version to my rich text editor and the spaces show up fine.

If you want them to show up on ezPost, you'd have to use the code tag. The problem is that the whole stat block would have to be wrapped in it and returns have to be entered manually then. Not a huge deal, but maybe a pain for consistent formatting. BTW, bold, italic, etc. still work in the code formatting, which is nice.


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Andorax
Verrik
(7/10/03 10:46 am)
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Re: 3.5e stat block in ezCode
I think, for consistancy and clarity, we should go ahead and do as I have in my statblocks and just use two hard

returns (a blank line) to differentiate paragraphs instead of trying to indent and having it be ignored.

The {code} tag just looks...ugly. It'll be hard enough without having to deal with that.

It looks like, by and large, I was pretty close to the mark. The only differences I'm seeing is in the presentation of other ACs, and in adding the "Base attack" and Grapple items before the actual attack and full attack statlines (well, and that the full attack repeats the entire information instead of "same").

Other than using the blank line between paragraphs, I think we should stick to the 3.5 DMG format as strictly as possible.

By the way, could one of the two Part 2 DMs post in the other thread...even if just as a placeholder? I'd like to get mine posted as well and open the thread up for use.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(7/10/03 11:29 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: 3.5e stat block in ezCode
"By the way, could one of the two Part 2 DMs post in the other thread...even if just as a placeholder? I'd like to get mine posted as well and open the thread up for use."

It's been done. I'll try to update it tonight to be more complete. Siobharek, let me know if you want to update it. I check my PM here about once a day, but ezBoard seems to be down. My personal e-mail is Lance (at) Marrou (dot) Net.

ZansForCans 
Faen
(7/10/03 12:21 pm)
Reply
Re: 3.5e stat block in ezCode
CC, is that a straight copy & paste from the 3.5e DMG? There's a couple of errors in there. Ick! Well I guess at least WotC is consistent... sad... I hope it doesn't bode well for the rest of the material.


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Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/10/03 4:41 pm)
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Re: 3.5e stat block in ezCode
Yep Zans this is directly from the 3.5E DMG. I noticed the stats for +1 crossbow bolts when there are only normal bolts. What else did you notice? I just want to make sure I didn't mistype.

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/10/03 4:46 pm)
Reply
Blank lines in stat block
Quote:
Other than using the blank line between paragraphs, I think we should stick to the 3.5 DMG format as strictly as possible.
Andorax, I think that the blank lines definitely look better on ezBoard, but in actual use when you print out the page or are looking at a PDF, the blank lines will make it harder to tell where new stat blocks begin. Meaning one can't scan a page as quickly just looking at the bold headers, as there will be multiple paragraph blocks with bold at the beginning.

I think the standard line spacing (with the two spaces we can't get to show up) looks very good on the page and will allow for quick scanning.

Or we could put the blank lines in on ezBoard and ask the final editor to change it for the PDF and other print versions.

ZansForCans 
Faen
(7/10/03 8:21 pm)
Reply
Re: Blank lines in stat block
Re: 3.5e stat block errors...

I didn't scan it very closely, but in addition to the normal bolts, the morningstar is masterwork in the equip and statted as +1. Those are kind of minor, I guess. The bigger one is that the melee attack bonus is off by 2! +7 (BAB) + 1 (Str) + 1 (Weapon Focus) + 1 (MW/+1 weapon) = +10. The full attack would also then be +10/+5.

Re: stat block formatting...

As a potential final editor, I don't think I'd have a problem converting blocks to a slightly different layout (say sans spaces and with indenting). I think it would be pretty trivial to do even it if was by hand. But I'm pretty resourceful with styles and scripting that I bet it will be better than that.

CC, do they have an example of a stat block with SA/SQ lines like Andorax has above? Those are the only other 'block' headings that would be bold in the 3.0 style and interrupt the scanning you're talking about. Is that retained in 3.5?


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Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/10/03 9:21 pm)
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Re: Blank lines in stat block
Yes I can confirm those mistakes are in there, I didn't mistype... Sigh...

Anyway, the SA and SQ aren't given on separate paragraphs, just in line with the rest of the first block... Sample 15th level Paladin appears like this:

... +1 composite longbow [+2 Str bonus]);SA smite evil 4/day, turn undead 11/day; SQ aura of courage, detect evil, divine grace, divine health, empathic link with mount, heavy warhorse mount, lay on hands, remove disease 4/week, share spells with mount; AL LG...

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/11/03 1:55 am)
Reply
Chatrilon so far
Quote:

Page 164
Chatrilon Unosh: Human Rog 5/Asn 1; Medium humanoid; HD 5d5+5 plus 1d6+1; hp 27; Init +6; Spd 30 ft.; AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 17; Base Atk +3; Grp +3; Atk +7 melee (1d6+1/18-20 +1 rapier) or +6 ranged (1d6/x3, masterwork composite shortbow); Full Atk +7 melee (1d6+1/18-20 +1 rapier) or +6 ranged (1d6/x3, masterwork composite shortbow); SA sneak attack +4d6, death attack; SQ evasion, trap finding, trap sense +1, uncanny dodge; AL NE; SV Fort +2, Ref +8, Will +0; Str 11, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 9, Cha 12.

Skills and Feats: Balance +4, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +5, Disable Device +11, Disguise +10, Escape Artist +11, Forgery +11, Hide +11, Intimidate +3, Jump +2, Move Silently +11, Open Lock +10, Sense Motive +7, Slight of Hand +6, Spellcraft +4, Spot +7, Tumble +11; Improved Initiative, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (rapier), Weapon Finesse.

Assassin Spells Known (2; save DC 13 + spell level): 1st—obscuring mist, disguise self

Death Attack (Ex): If the assassin studies a target for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack can also paralyze (for 1d6+1 rounds) or kill the victim. Fort save DC 14 to resist.

Possessions: +1 rapier, masterwork studded leather, +1 buckler, potion of cure moderate wounds, arcane scroll of undetectable alignment, wand of invisibility (15 charges), masterwork composite shortbow, 20 arrows.

Chatrilon is typically found in Hommlet at the Inn of the Welcome Wench, area 4 (page 13).

Edited by: Cordo Crowfoot at: 7/12/03 6:06 am
Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/11/03 2:07 am)
Reply
Questions brought up by Chatrilon
Chat as a single character calls for two judgment calls:
1) He only "knows" two 1st level spells so his current spellbook of four spells needs to be cut down to two. Since he had Obscuring Mist memmed, that should probably be one of them.
2) Innuendo is elminated. (I also noticed he has +9 in Innuendo when as a 6th level character his max ranks are 9 and Wis would take -1 from that... and he has too many skill ranks as well. I guess we are going to find a lot of errata we hadn't found before.) Since Bluff, the skill Innuendo is being folded into is already maxed out, there are a lot of skill ranks to move elsewhere. Chat has no Slight of Hand ranks which is probably a good candidate so moved the 4 remaining ranks to that skill.

The larger issues doing this conversion brought to my attention (which effects the whole process) are:
1) Just to confirm, should the initial posting of conversions and discussions of conversion issues like 1 and 2 above take place in the notes and assignments thread?
2) I'm not sure if we should be highligting in lime the entire Atk line, unless the numbers there really did change from 3.0. Likewise, something like "trap finding", an ability that just changed names from locate traps. Another example, Weapon Finesse (Rapier) just becoming normal Weapon Finesse. The advantage to highlighting everything would be if people want to mark up their books that shows them what to change. The disadvantage is that it might be distracting to see something highlighted that isn't really a change. Opinions?
3) How should we present any notes on the conversion we want to give? It might add too much volume and be unwieldy for actual game use to have a big paragraph including notes such as "Chat's other options for known 1st level spells are a, b, c" underneath the block taking up a lot of space. Maybe it should go in a separate document? Or should we just expect people to compare the 3.0 stats to our conversion and make any modifications they want themselves if they want to dig that deeply?

Edited by: Cordo Crowfoot at: 7/11/03 4:48 am
Andorax
Verrik
(7/11/03 9:21 am)
Reply
Re: Questions brought up by Chatrilon
a1) Good call on the spells. The first is his memorized one, the second the one he uses by far and away the most.

a2) Slight of Hand is a logical choice for a replacement skill. Again, I say...good call.

b1) Once we've got the rules worked out for how we're doing this here, yes, the postings of "product", and commentary on it, should appear in the actual notes and assignments thread. That will be where the data gets assembled, compiled, cleaned up, and edited.

b2) My concern here is consistancy. Something's either a change or it isn't. If we start picking and choosing which changes we highlight and which we don't, we'll eventually have a big mess on our hands. If you don't want to see what's changed in the PDF, print it black & white.

b3) I wouldn't recommend any "notes" of the sort in the final product. Again, that's scope creep. We stick to one conversion form and post that as the "official" 3.5 version...DMs who don't like it can vary at their whim.

However, you bring up a valid point. There may well be variations that need discussed in the process of getting to the "official" version. I would recommend that if there's anything in a statblock you're unsure of (such as your first two questions) they be added at the end of the block...perhaps in red to differentiate them as being comments on, not part of, the official statblock.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

msherman
Faen
(7/11/03 2:52 pm)
Reply
Re: Questions brought up by Chatrilon
The lime is quite visible for me, thanks for the change guys. The red suggested by Andorax for uncertain bits is even worse for me than the teal was, though. If it's only for temporary questionable parts, and will be quickly eliminated as questions are answered, I can live with having to highlight the red text to be able to read it, though.

So, have the books shipped yet? I just checked Amazon, and it claims they're still not released. :\

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(7/11/03 8:25 pm)
Reply
Re: Questions brought up by Chatrilon
msherman, can you let us know what colors are legible for you then?
black white red blue orange yellow green maroon navy purple gray lime olive teal fuchsia

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