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Fillerbunny34
Here for a while
(4/20/03 10:26 am)
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The Succubus : 10% chance for a near-auto TPK?
Just wondering if anyone has ever had the Succubus in the Chamber Of Hate use her "10% chance of summoning one Balor" ability...... and it's actually worked?
Because WOW but that would be deadly. I guess a party would either be ripped apart in a few rounds, or have one hell of a hard-fought victory to gloat over. 
The burning is love |
Kenmis
Here for a while
(4/20/03 11:46 am)
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ALMOST
No, but in a friend's game our 10th level party ran into a succubus, and her Summon Balor roll was a %14. 4 percent away from wiping out the party.
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benhamtroll
Here quite a while
(4/20/03 5:45 pm)
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Re: ALMOST
Now, would they get XP for the Balor? I sincerely doubt that the CR for a Succubus takes THAT into account . . .
There's no business like gnoll business |
The guy from Belgium
Here for a while
(4/21/03 1:22 am)
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Re: ALMOST
that ability IS taken into account yes...
just like a high level mage can summon a high CR monster, the ability is taken into the mage's CR
so i wouldn't give them extra XP for it, considering the odds that a balor would appear
and if it did, and they were smart, they'd run...
part of being a good adventurer is knowing when to run 
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msherman
Here for a while
(4/21/03 5:20 am)
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Re: ALMOST
Bear in mind that these are Demons -- the first thing a summoned Balor might do, in the face of such unworthy opposition as a bunch of stinking mortals, is kill the presumptuous Succubus that summoned it. The Succubus knows this, and won't use the Summon Balor ability unless it's completely backed into a wall. If the Succubus does use the ability, and it works, have the Balor blow off its first round slaughtering the Succubus -- this should give the party all the clue-bat they need to get the hell out of dodge.
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Caedrel
Here for a while
(4/21/03 3:55 pm)
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Re: ALMOST
Another reason the succubus would be reluctant to summon a balor is that it obligates her in some way to the fiend summoned; she'd obviously want to avoid this unless she had a really, really good reason (and keep in mind that she can just teleport away when things start getting out of hand...)
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Fillerbunny34
Here for a while
(4/21/03 4:23 pm)
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Re: ALMOST
Yep, I agree. I think she would only risk such a summoning in dire circumstances. Although imagine if she did manage to summon it. So the party runs away, maybe back to the CRM, and the angry Balor slaughters the Succubus. What then? Hedrack et al now have a very angry, extremely dangerous demon on the loose right in their home base. I would think that the Outer Fane folk would either make an all-out assault in an attempt to drive off the creature (which could actually prove beneficial for the PCs if it lowered OF resources and killed off some enemies), or they would take the risk of trying to bargain with it. A Balor would be a powerful ally....
What do you guys think?
This is all pretty hypothetical, since the chances of the Succubus even trying to summon a Balor, let alone succeeding, are pretty small. Still, it could happen.
The burning is love |
Trithereon
Here quite a while
(4/21/03 6:44 pm)
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Re: The Succubus : 10% chance for a near-auto TPK?
Fillerbunny,
Remember that the Succubus summoning is just that: a summoning. The MM says that any demon summoned returns from where they came from an hour after being summoned.
So, if the Succubus summons a Balor the Balor is only a problem/ally for an hour at most ... also remember that a summoned demon can not use its summoning powers.
However, imagine all the havoc a Balor can cause in that hour!
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msherman
Here for a while
(4/21/03 6:48 pm)
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Re: The Succubus : 10% chance for a near-auto TPK?
The Balor's not an idiot, though -- do you think he'd be able to figure out enough of what's going on in that hour to maybe come back of his own acord afterwards for a piece of the action?
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Trithereon
Here quite a while
(4/21/03 9:10 pm)
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Re: The Succubus : 10% chance for a near-auto TPK?
msherman,
I am not sure how a Balor would accomplish returning to the CRM on his own. In my campaign, I do not allow fiends and celestrials the freedom to Gate into the mortal realm at will; they must be called or summoned.
YMMV
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Grumgarr
Here for a while
(4/22/03 12:16 am)
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Re: The Succubus : 10% chance for a near-auto TPK?
I agree with Tritherion that the summoned Balor (or any other summoned fiend) would only be around for an hour.
They can Teleport Without Error but this doesn't allow interplanar travel.
from the SRD:
Quote:
Teleport without Error
Transmutation [Teleportation]
Level: Sor/Wiz 7, Travel 7
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal and touch
Target: The character and touched objects or other touched willing creatures weighing up to 50 lb./level
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)
This spell instantly transports the character to a designated destination. Distance is not a factor, but interplanar travel is not possible. The character can bring along objects and willing creatures totaling up to 50 pounds per caster level. As with all spells where the range is personal and the target is the character, the character need not make a saving throw, nor is SR applicable to the character. Only objects held or in use (attended) by another person receive saving throws and SR.
The character must have a reliable description of the place to which the character is teleporting. If the character attempts to teleport with insufficient information (or with misleading information), the character disappears and simply reappears in the character's original location. Areas of strong physical or magical energies may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible.
Note: Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.
and summoning a Balor entails a big payback from the Succubus - Teleporting away is a far better option - Succubi aren't good at or IMO keen on physical combat - they're deceivers and seducers. Get out of dodge and plot revenge and torment for those that offended you...or their loved ones, bwa-ha-ha!
Grumgarr
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Trithereon
Here quite a while
(4/22/03 2:54 am)
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Re: The Succubus : 10% chance for a near-auto TPK?
Actually, I wasn't even considering its Teleport w/out error ability.
I figure that since the Astral Plane is teeming with fiends that they have some access to it ... powerful Lower Plane spellcasters create Gates to the Astral while powerful fiends guard and control access to these gates.
I could imagine a situation where a Balor, with sufficient desire, could find a way into the Astral (gain access to a permanent Gate, find a spellcaster to cast Plane Shift, or even cast Gate). Without some sort of cosmic ban against it then once the Balor is in the Astral Plane it is just a matter of time to find a way into the Material Plane and then just a Teleport away from the Outer Fane. Indeed, without some cosmic ban a fiend might access the Material Plane by more direct means through powerful Lower Plane spellcasters (Plane Shift and Gate).
However, I figure that since there aren't armies of fiends and celestrials roaming the Material Plane implies that there must be some ban agreed upon and enforced by the gods themselves.
Just some thoughts
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Fillerbunny34
Here for a while
(4/22/03 3:04 am)
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Re: The Succubus : 10% chance for a near-auto TPK?
Yeah, I was remembering the whole hour thing. But like you said, a lot can be done in an hour. The Outer Fane isn't that big, and an hour would certainly be enough time for something like a Balor to rip it to shreds. Of course, that wouldn't be much fun for the PCs, so I don't think I would ever do it.
I just brought this topic up because I didn't know about the Succubus ability until I was prepping the session which would likely involve the Chamber Of Hate, and I realised I had never seen the topic brought up here. I figured that the low probability of it working and the even lower probability of the Succubus even trying it in the first place pretty much explains this. However the chance is still there, and if worked out carefully it could make for a very interesting situation...
The burning is love |
Trithereon
Here quite a while
(4/22/03 5:45 am)
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Re: The Succubus : 10% chance for a near-auto TPK?
Filler,
Yeah, those 600 rounds could be very nasty indeed. As the Balor is a summoned creature it need not fear death at all. It can rampage at will without a care to what or who gets in harms way.
However, I'm not convinced that the Balor would immediately slay the Succubus. The Balor may be quite happy to rampage on everything non-tanar'ri (especially that devil in the OF) and then turn on the Succubus if she's stupid enough to still be around after everthing else is gone.
And perhaps not even then ...
According to the MM, under the Summon Tanar'ri description it reads: Tanar'ri can summon other tanar'ri much as though casting the summon monster spell, but they only have a limited chance of success ...
The "much as though" is an important qualifier as it signifies that it much like, but not quite, similar to the summon spell. The dissimular part may just be the limited chance of success part of the description leaving the rest of the Summon Tanar'ri to work just like the summon monster spell.
If you accept that arguement then the Succubus can attempt her summoning without fear of retribution as the Summer Monster I spell reads: This spell summons an outsider (in this case Balor) that attacks your enemies. It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If youc can communicate with the outsider (and she can), you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions ...
I prefer using the Succubus power like this because the last thing that I try to assume is that fiendish (and tanar'ri in particular) society is logical or even understandable by human standards. In fiendish society the Succubus may represent an important niche in the Balor lifestyle. Her 10% chance to summon a Balor may represent her ability to summon her "boyfriend" to kick your butt when you offend or threaten her. Since the Balor is in no real danger, he's more than glad to have 600 rounds of mayhem.
It is important to understand that while a simple 1st level spell, Protection from Evil, can keep a Balor from physically attacking it can not stop it from casting things like implosion, fire storm, blasphemy, symbol (any), unholy blight, wall of fire, etc ...
Edited by: Trithereon at: 4/22/03 5:59:40 am
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Fillerbunny34
Here for a while
(4/22/03 6:49 am)
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Re: The Succubus : 10% chance for a near-auto TPK?
Wow, I like the "I'll get my boyfriend to kick your ass" idea. Also, I forgot about the Cornugon guest..... that could lead to a fierce battle. When my party fought the Cornugon, I used the idea which someone mentioned on this board (sorry, don't remember who) and had it use Major Image to create a very realistic illusion of a Pit Fiend to terrify its opponents. A Balor probably wouldn't be fooled for long, but it would be a very intense moment upon first sight I would think. Uber-powerful Demon meets apparent Uber-Powerful Devil, right on Hedrack's doorstep. Or perhaps the Balor might find Chymon, if she still lived, and insitgate a Clash Of The Titans (for a few brief rounds before Chymon got cut down, anyway).
>sigh<, now I almost wish I had tried to summon and succeeded. Just for the fun of rampaging a Balor through the Outer Fane for 600 rounds... A small spot of DM munchkin fun couldn't hurt, could it?  *kidding*
The burning is love |
deafdungeonmasterRIT
Here to stay
(4/22/03 9:17 am)
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Hmm..
How can D'Gran fade against Balor?
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Andorax
Still here? Wow.
(4/22/03 11:59 am)
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Re: Hmm..
About the only place I'd even consider placing a Balor in this adventure is a GPA of The First. It's just not "befitting" to have the Succubus summon a Balor into the Chamber of Hate.
After all...if a Balor was what was *supposed* to be in there, Hedrack has GPA at his disposal as well.
My advice...just don't bother with that power of the Succubus at all (in this adventure). There are a few good places to apply it, but neither of the two Succubus in RttToEE are one of them.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
Fillerbunny34
Here for a while
(4/22/03 1:50 pm)
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Re: Hmm..
Yeah, it would seem a little 'out of place' in that particular situation. However, I still think that a Succubus wouldn't necessarily stick to what Hedrack or anyone else tells her is appropriate behaviour. If she was really really scared for her life, she might just try it. However, Teleport Without Error pretty much gives here a get-out-of-danger-free card, and I think she'd use that first rather than a 10% chance of summoning something which might kill her anyway. But hey, who really knows the minds of Demons?
Also, I don't think Hedrack has access to GPA since it's 8th level. It doesn't matter though because you can call a Balor if you really want to with regular Planar Ally. It's got 13HD.
Hehe, don't worry. I don't think any of us were really going to sic the most powerful Demon in the MM on the party in the middle of the Outer Fane, on top of all the otehr lovely danger going on in there. It's just an amusing thought that it could happen.
The burning is love |
benhamtroll
Here quite a while
(4/22/03 1:55 pm)
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Re: Hmm..
So . . . where would you have her telport to?
There's no business like gnoll business |
Andorax
Still here? Wow.
(4/22/03 2:31 pm)
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Re: Hmm..
Varachan. Second in command of the Outer Fane, and probably less tempermental than Hedrack. Report to him that there's a group of adventurers marauding in the holiest parts of the Outer Fane.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
deafdungeonmasterRIT
Here to stay
(4/22/03 8:03 pm)
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Hmm..
and how will Varachan react to this?
Beside.. what would Balor do in Chamber of Hate? Seeing soo many look like clones there... what would he do in that room?
Think about that...
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