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Here for a while
(5/9/03 8:43 am)
Ok, i was looking at thrommel's stats, and i don't see why he's so scary. Can anyone give me some pointers on how to play him all mean-like?

Keep in mind my party is very adept at killing undead. The cleric w/ an extensive spell list from Book of Hallowed Might (illuminated weapon, sheild of light, blazing light, and waves of light all do terrible things to undead) and a paladin/hunter of the dead with a mace of disruption.

Any suggestions? should i have him with hedrack? I'm going to try to make the Outer Fane as challanging as possible, because my party is slightly ahead level wise, average party level 12 i beleive.

Here for a while
(5/9/03 8:55 am)
Re: Thrommel?
These may be of some use:

Focus his Domination on the party's rogue and fighters (the low Will save PCs). That can quickly turn a fight to his advantage. Also, keep the party off-balance so they do not know when/where the attack is coming (and that they are fighting a vampire). It keeps the Protection from Evil spell from springing up and ruining Thrommel's fun.

Also, I would have a couple of the Fanes (minor) inhabitants under his power. That will keep the party from only focusing on Thrommel.

Here to stay
(5/9/03 11:00 am)
Thrommel should be treated as hit and run character thank to his high regeneration rate. Just in few rounds, he can put a huge hurt on an individual member. He can do that, so use him wisely. He isn't the kind of a person who will work with other, but with certain order, he may just will.

If you have him work with Hedrack, make sure Hedrack is VERY nervous and wary. This is a former prince who fought against him in the past for Heaven's sake! If anything, Hedrack may actually have Varachan or Naquent to watch out for Thrommel, while Hedrack focus his offensive on the party.

Still here? Wow.
(5/9/03 11:18 am)
Re: Hmm..
On the other hand, Hedrack might buff up Thrommel somewhat. Imagine how much Thrommel would be if he were bolstered to 18HD and given spell immunity to the PC's main spells.

Still here? Wow.
(5/10/03 3:02 am)
Re: Hmm..
How aware are the cultists of the PCs skills in a fight against undead? Because if Thrommel knows about their abilities he will definitely take counter measures. Anyway, vampires work best with hit-and-run tactics. If you want to be really mean, he will keep his distance until the PCs sleep and then try to dominate the guards one by one. Just remember that the PCs know that they had to make a save and that Thrommel knows whether they succeeded or not. Also remember many of the suggestions on giving this vampire some nasty personality and to use him in a role-playing fashion given on these boards.

Can't leave now (mod)
(5/10/03 11:48 pm)
Re: Hmm..
One of the big reasons Thrommel has such a nasty rep is because in several campaigns he's been used as an assassin. (Usually after Ukemil and or Victor & Bethe have had their shot at it and failed.)

That's not really how the encounter was intended, so I advise people to be VERY careful if they loose Thrommel on a party who's not ready to crack the Outer Fane. That domination ability is a killer on your low-Will types.

Personally, I think there's a reason they keep him cooped up in that little room: no one trusts him. Plus he's so famous that if word got around that he'd been sighted, there'd be an army of paladins descending on the mines in no time. Inconvenient when you're planning the destruction of the world.

So Thrommel as written is not that bad. Particularly for an undead hunter type party.

But if you go off-script, he can bring order to the chaos that is the CRM and have a small army of vampire spawn virtually overnight, hassle the party with hit-and-run tactics, and dominate the rogues and fighters when they take guard duty.

I don't recommend this.

I really suggest you use him as a solid RP encounter. Thrommel can be saved. Make that party of do-gooders think twice before they wipe him out. Maybe he pleads with them to contact Jolene. Maybe he's willing to cut a deal if they'll free him.

And maybe he's not telling the truth about any of those things. Maybe he's going to turn them over to Hedrack at the first opportunity. He's wily.

-Thrommel, feeling strangely schizophrenic.

Here for a while
(5/11/03 5:42 am)
Re: Hmm..
In general, if your party has taken the right classes/feats/spells in order to deal well with a certain type of situation, I wouldn't recommend going out of your way to make the encounter more difficult.

Good use of Thrommel's Domination ability is good advice for anyone running him. But if the encounter does become a battle, let them have their cakewalk over him rather than buffing him up. If the party's strength is hunting undead, let them shine at it.

Here quite a while
(5/11/03 8:03 am)
Re: Hmm..
And don't forget is authority to enforce board policy and lock threads. He could stop everyone by simply locking any threads as soon as they start.

There's no business like gnoll business

Here for a while
(5/11/03 11:05 am)
Thrommel, master of the CRM
I kinda like the plan of having Thrommel take over the CRM, it would be a nasty surprise to my party, who just got done taking out a vampire (Gulthias) who'd been harassing them since first level. They may think this has something to do w/ Gulthias (since they don't know about Thrommel) and it could be a nice scare.

On the other hand, my party is already ahead of the game level-wise, so there's no need to give them even MORE expreience that's outside the party. Also, i want to get to the Outer Fane. I think what i'll end up doing is just playing him as normal, and hoping for a chance to do some actual roleplaying /w it. That's awful hard with a Hunter of the Dead in the party:

Him:"does it detect evil?"
Him:"does it detect as undead?"
Him:<whips out mace of disruption> "CHAARGE!"
The rest of the party: <sighs> "Here we go again."

Here for a while
(5/11/03 3:37 pm)
Re: Thrommel, master of the CRM
If you are using Thrommel sent by Hedrack against the party, I highly recommend that Hedrack buffs him beforehand (especially if the party is fairly powerful).

Recommended buffs:

Spell Resistance - This should give our favorite Prince an SR of 26 (12+ Hedrack's 14). Good for keeping those nasty spells off of him.

Spell Immunity - If Hedrack's been scrying the party regularly, double buff him against the party's favorites. I believe at Hedrack's level, you'll get to pick three spells to be totally immune to (two recommended - Searing Light and Magic Missle + one other).

Bolster Undead - Would you hate to see Thrommel running like a little sissy boy from a cleric with a holy symbol? So would I. Have Hedrack bolster him.

Bull Strength & Cat's Grace - always a favorite.

Equip him with a Recall Stick (7th level Clr spell Recall) - To be able to get away quickly, give him this set to 'port to the Greater Temple in the OF. 3E changes to Gaseous Cloud don't make it the best spell available for getaways any more.

The above should make the Prince even more formidable and let him deal from a position of strength with the party. Also remember, Thrommel's objective is (usually) to try to get free of the control of the OF. He should at least attempt to talk to the party first before opening a can of whoop on them.

However, if the party starts up on him, have him wail on one of them just to show how nasty he is. Remember to target any obvious "good" types (paladins, cleric bearing holy symbols of good aligned gods) and open up using his Smite Good ability (this tactic works better if he can attack from surprise to add his Sneak Attack!) - 2d6 [greatsword]+2d6[unholy sword]+2d6[SA if possible]+[Str 24 plus Bull Str (+4) = Str 28 (+9x1.5 [two handed weapon] = +13]+13 + 9 [Smite Good] for a total of:

6d6+22 for SA Smite Good strike, 6d6+13 for regular SA's, followed up by 4d6+13 for the rest.

I know IMC when Thrommel SA'd the party paladin for a full attack round (leading with a Smite Good), the player's eyes went wide when I was rolling damage (I roll in the open). Somehow, they didn't want to mess with him after that....

Edited by: Zenon at: 5/11/03 3:38:39 pm
Here for a while
(5/11/03 9:33 pm)
Beautiful. I think that's what i'll do. And on top of that, the party rogue won't be /w him that session, so no insain spot checks.

Thrommel could easily hit them in the silenced area and do all that damage and be gone before they even knew he was there.

That + Domination could prove to be an interesting encounter.

Still here? Wow.
(5/11/03 11:39 pm)
Re: Ouch!
Just remember Andorax's mantra: "The PCs are the heroes, they are suposed to win."

Personally, I never get any satisfaction from a PCs death let alone a TPK. Sometimes the death of a PC cannot be avoided and usually I feel slightly bad about it. Luckily my players realize that one of their own dies it is usually due to their own stupidity. You would think that by now they realize that as a group they should stay close together especially when one of them realizes from the onset their opponents are luring them forward into a trap :\

(As you can probably guess, last saturday a PC died at the hands of the shield guardian in Caves of Ancient Secrets (add-on section to the CRM that can be freely downloaded from the WotC website) and if I had wanted to two others would have been dead as well. More would have died if I had not forgotten the kuo-tuos immunity to lightning...)

Here for a while
(5/12/03 4:44 pm)
Playing Nice
Yes, in the end i almost always let my PC's win, but they very much enjoy a good challange. A very significant portion of the CRM was too easy for them (the only real challange being the fire bridge fight) so they are expecting a challange in the Outer Fane.

Even with that nasty sneak attack, the cleric's Blazing Light spell can easily do over 100hp damage to light sensitive undead, so after that initial hit, if i don't get thrommel out of there, he's mince meat.

(5/12/03 11:10 pm)
Re: Playing Nice
Then wouldn't it be a standard tactic to send in the dangerous undead after having send in minor undead -who appear to be the dangerous undead-? It is the best way to suck up turn attempts and nasty destructive spells. Then again, I don't know how careful your PCs are.

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