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malthazar
Lawnmower
(5/12/03 9:05 pm)
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Janni character?
I'm planning on starting RttToEE within the next week or two. It will be my first real foray into the DM's chair. The players are coming up with characters and one has asked about playing a Janni under the Savage Species rules. Given that this character has ties to all four elemental planes and "is capable of being a go-between for various elemental" creatures, how do you think that could affect NPC reactions in the CRM? And do you think the plane shift ability is too powerful? I'm a little worried about it, given that at 11th level it's use is unlimited with 6 passengers.

thanks,
mal

Siobharek 
Racecar
(5/12/03 10:46 pm)
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ezSupporter

Re: Janni character?
I think it sounds like a great idea! The Janni character might at some point be commissioned by the Good forces of the Elements to investigate "the disturbance of the Force".

Regarding balancing issues, I'd consider also asking in the D&D Characters Forum here and over at Sean K. Reynolds' boards - he's one of the designers, after all.

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

msherman
Calandar
(5/13/03 3:45 am)
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Re: Janni character?
Bear in mind that the whole area has a chance for summoned elementals to be evil. While this certainly shouldn't turn a Janni PC evil, it might have a vaguely unsettling effect on him.

I have a somewhat similar situation in my game; I'm running Monte's free event-based adventure Thicker Than Water along with RTTTOEE, which has one of the PCs in the party being a distant decendant of Yan-C-Bin. The PC himself is already CN walking a fine line short of evil, and as they get closer to the fanes, I plan to start passing him suggestive notes and such ("Steal the gem! The cleric will just return it to those undeserving dwarves in town!") I wouldn't be surprised if this same PC (who is the party rogue and very much a thief) ends up with the Demonstone, too. :evil

Infiniti2000
Racecar
(5/13/03 5:24 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: Janni character?
What's the Janni's ECL? It almost seems like the PC is too powerful already. Are you starting the PC's out at 4th? Read through the other thread where Andorax recommends you start the players at 1st (particularly beginning DM's). It's a very good suggestion.

Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily see a problem with a Janni. Just being "part" elemental doesn't make one associate with evilness. I also would not have the Temple's evil adversely affect the Janni. I don't think he will have much more power than say a dwarf cleric with the earth domain.

madfox
Racecar
(5/13/03 5:31 am)
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Re: Janni character?
Savage Species gives the option to start creatures at 1st lvl and slowly grows into the full powers of the creature taking racial levels rather litteral ;) As far as I understood that was what he was going for. I am currently testing it in my own campaign if it works or not since one of the PCs is slowly becomming a full-fledged lillend over the next 12 levels. I have a bit mixed feelings about this method. If I were the DM I would make the agreement with the PC that it is an experiment and with that there is the risk that the character might be taken away or changed if it proves too powerful during playing.

Andorax
Racecar
(5/13/03 7:05 am)
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Re: Janni character?
I'm a bit concerned about the Plane Shift ability as well...but do bear in mind that it is highly inaccurate. The PCs have a way to "bail out" of a nasty situation with a single round's action, but once they do Plane Shift out, then back again, they'll be anywhere within 500 miles of where they're headed.


You'll definately want to build in suspense and tension in the campaign. By the time they reach 11th level, there's a decent chance they know "what's up", so Plane Shifting out to rest up and recover, then Plane Shifting, followed by Wind Walking, to return to the CRM could take too long (and even without that, it's within the capabilities of an 11th level party anyway without the Jaani).



So don't worry about it...let 'em have a go. If you want to play up the elemental nature of the Jaani and have some fun with the player, describe to him (as they go through the CRM) hearing "whispers" that he can't quite make out....make them stronger in each element's temple "Burn their flesh, sear them, fry their bones". "Drag them down, freeze them, crush them under the water"...stuff like that. Just think about what a full-fledged elemental being would be hearing upon entry into the CRM that would drive it evil and make it go nuts.


Besides, odds are the Jaani will be dead before he reaches 11th anyways.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

malthazar
A cup of coffee
(5/13/03 11:38 am)
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Re: Janni character?
Yeah, I'll be surprised if he makes it to 11th level given the reduced HD he has. And good point about the Plane Shifting. I forgot about the inaccuracy thing. It might help prevent a TPK, but probably wouldn't be unbalancing.

And I love the evil whispers. That will be very cool.

In answer to Infiniti2000, I had planned on starting them at 3rd with a sort of custom lead in involving some children kidnapped by low level cult members (with poor judgement). But since the players have started telling me what type of characters they want to play I'm having to rethink my intro. Here's my group of characters:
- A mute female psionicist/Monk (with Wolverine style bladed gauntlets)
- A gnome cleric/sorceror
- A Janni rogue (SS rules)
- And one (maybe two) tough guy fighter types.

I found the suggestions for the adventures to run to lead from 1st into RttToEE, but I couldn't find any explanation of why that's preferable to starting at 3rd or 4th level.

g

The guy from Belgium
A song from the sixties
(5/13/03 12:51 pm)
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Re: Janni character?
i'm not sure, but isn't there a rule that a monser class PC can't have class levels (rogue in this case) before he has a certain number of hit dice?

i don't even recall where i read it, but i'm sure i found it somewhere a while back... you oughta check it out before you give the janni rogue a green light...

just my thoughts

btw: i personally wouldn't allow any SS creatures as PC's, nor even say a troll or ogre... half ogre like in andorax campaign is the limit, due to the troubles the character might experience in the local tavern :evil
but since it's your campaign, you're free to take it any way you want, just adding some counterweight here ;)

malthazar
A cup of coffee
(5/13/03 12:58 pm)
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Re: Janni character?
Yeah, he's planning on using his skill points for rogue skills, but he won't get to take class levels til he fills out his Janni levels. And I pretty much agree with you about monsterous characters. I discouraged the same guy from playing a bugbear, but a Janni looks completely human, so it shouldn't be a problem.

malthazar - who only looks human when his appearance generator is turned on.

Andorax
A guitar
(5/13/03 1:11 pm)
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Re: Janni character?
The Guy From Belgium, Spud was a full-blown Ogre. Recall, also, that he traveled with two Druids and avoided civilization as much as possible, and when he was in town, he looked like a "really big guy in Plate Mail armor", so it wasn't patently obvious even then.

Yes, I was being a bit generous and open, but it worked out ok in the end.


malthazar, the main reason I recommend starting from 1st is when I see someone claiming to be either new to DMing, new to 3E, or having new players. An experienced group can do just as well starting off at 3rd or 4th.

On the other hand, even the experienced group can benefit from having a chance to evolve a PC background, personalities, interactions, and so forth...and starting from 1st lets you avoid all of the annoying technicalities and problems of a more advanced starting PC (starting equipment, how everyone met, etc.). Still, I mostly just recommend it as a means to get a new group's "feet wet" before they're thrown into the intense module itself.


I hope you have fun with the whispers.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

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