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A song from the sixties
(5/16/03 2:19 pm)
Because evil plots don't just make themselves...
Hey all, I need help with an evil plot. Maybe someone could help me hash out one?

My group has been using Magic Jar alot, I've been bad and went over it alot at wizards boards and am now fully aware of the danger of this, I've warned the wizard but I don't think he's going to clue in. The Group is under a greater scry spell for the day and Hedrack knows all about this strategy. So I am thinking of having his body kidnapped.
Plus side: my group has pretty near swarmed over the CRM stomping everyone in their way. It may be a good way to let em know that this Hedrack guy is serious.
Down side: The wizard in question has already died once, the only PC to die thusfar.

The group is allied to the Water temple. They were brought to the 2nd in command in that temple Nibool as the one who found them was a Kuo-Toa, Kelashi found out and blinded him. Nibool commanded the PC's prove their loyalty to them by slaughtering all the humans in the temple, they did it. So I am thinking if they want to ally with evil... My idea so far is the Kuo-Toa's bring the group to the Fire temple's doorstep and instead of helping them out just dives into the water and swims off. Thus the group won't be able to attack them and can't go back through the water as they can't swim, nearly any of em.

I am favouring the latter choice. Any ideas my friends?

A song from the sixties
(5/17/03 4:14 am)
Re: Because evil plots don't just make themselves...
1. The Wizard is just leaving his body lying around?!? Even if Hedrack doesn't organise a kidnapping of the body, I'm sure Thrommel would love to get his hands on it - it would give him leverage against the PCs for getting his coffin out of the Outer Fane...

2. Mm, I can see the Water Temple forces just abandoning the PCs, but I suspect they'd prefer to maintain a token presence - not to reduce their strength at all, since they still want the PCs to take the brunt of assault, but enough to make sure the PCs don't try to cut a deal with the Fire Temple. By cutting down the humans in the CRM (what's the deal there? ie. what are their alignments?), they have demonstrated some trustworthiness, though, so maybe the Water Temple will provide a show of force. They'd always be planning a double cross, though - once the Fire Temple is gone, the Water Temple rules, and they'd like a way to dispose of the threat the party is as quickly as possible. And they know all about their tactics, etc too...

A song from the sixties
(5/17/03 6:48 am)
Re: Because evil plots don't just make themselves...
The group's been pretty good about protecting the lifeless body, they have an NPC who is higher level than them protecting it or they put it in a protected room. The PCs are predominantly evil at this point.

I've had the Water temple make good use of speak with dead and simply examining the fallen, so they have a pretty good idea what the PCs will do and are capable of. Let's see many fried by lightning and loads of similar rapier wounds and gaping greatsword wounds.

I thought this would make a great sort of revenge plot. The group is led to the slaughter by the Water temple and left for dead. The only way they'll live is if they can fight their way to them. The group at this point is used to having a door out at their backs, and this plot takes it away.

A robot with powers
(5/17/03 7:47 am)
Re: Because evil plots don't just make themselves...
1a) Your wizard is aware that if his spell ends while his original body is out of range (190 feet at 9th level to 300 feet at 20th level) that he'll die right? His spell can be ended by dispelling the magic on either the magic jar or the host. He's only one caster level check from death! Silly wizard. If Hedrack has a legitate way to determine this weakness then there is no reason why he'd not use it to kill the wizard the first time they met.

1b) You say they are all evil, eh? Well then how trustworthy is this NPC protecting the wizard's body? Is the NPC evil? Does the NPC have any real loyalty to the evil wizard? Would the NPC betray the wizard? For what price? Personally, I feel that's the price of being evil. If the NPC isn't afraid of retribution and can profit from the wizard's demise then what's to stop him from looking the other way as Hedrack kidnaps the evil wizard's body? Kind of ironic justice, no? The evil wizard who kidnaps other's bodies gets his own body kidnapped!

2) I agree with Caedrel. The Water attack force would want to stay and make sure that their hired mercenaries follow through with their end of the bargain. What's to keep the PCs from pocketing the platinum and scrolls and then make a deal with the Fire Temple to destroy the Water Temple? Nothing. We're dealing with a bunch of evil people. The Water Temple forces need to make sure they are not being double crossed, and if they are then in position to do something about it (even if it is to run and report it back to the Water Temple).

P.S. Don't listen to my advice. I have no sympathy for evil parties. They have none: the lack of empathy or sympathy for others is part and parcel for a selfish evil creature. Kill them all. It serves them right.

Edited by: Trithereon at: 5/17/03 7:51:38 am
A song from the sixties
(5/17/03 8:05 pm)
Re: Because evil plots don't just make themselves...
I've gotta say that I'm with Trithereon in completely lacking any sympathy for evil parties - with that in mind...

They've left only one NPC to guard the wizard's body? What class is he? 'cos if it doesn't have a good Will save, Thrommel's Domination gaze not only gets the wizard's body, it gets control of the NPC too... I didn't know about the dying part of magic jar, but that might work nicely too - after getting the body, Thrommel could strip it of all spell components, gag it, etc - so when the wizard returns to his body, he finds himself as Thrommel's captive...

If the party really are evil, it changes the dynamics of the module considerably. Sure, they'd be interested in stopping the end of the world, but they don't know this is happening yet, right? So the Water Temple, being familiar with how these things work, could probably continue to work with the party by making sure the rewards of doing so outweigh the risks involved in taking the Temple on. So I'd think they would try ot be truthful with them wherever possible (although Kelashein's megalomania may pose a problem here).

I think the altar of EEE gives the Temple leverage - if the Water Temple becomes the strongest, they get the altar and can reward the party with a good magic item. Only the Temple knows how to work the altar (be wary of this - an evil party wouldn't have any compunction about using the altars to get powerful magic items at the cost of a few lives, which could become unbalancing).

Tanbrosh also represents opportunities. If the Water Temple can get the party hooked on it, all they need to do is take out the cleric with neutralise poison, and the party is dependent on them for their fix. They should be up front about its effect on Wisdom, but not mention its addictive properties...

My players include some classic CN types - I'm trying to explode the myth of evil characters being cool by having the Water Temple offer them little boys, creatures etc for their amusement - they'll be disgusted and realise just what "evil" means. If they don't, I'm going to have to talk to them out of game in real life about it...

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