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Caedrel
A song from the sixties
(5/20/03 11:42 pm)
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Tharizdun background (muchly Greyhawk influenced)
BTW Thanks everyone for the feedback on Varachan - it's helped a lot in framing my thoughts about his motivation and character...
*** WARNING! *** "Oathbound" spoilers ahead too...
Anyhow, this thread was inspired by the EEE and Tharizdun one going on, although it's been percolating through my brain for some time now. Tharizdun is supposed to be truly scary - which is why I think most of us were disappointed at Dragon magazine's stats for him and much more impressed with the pseudonatural paragon umbral blot that's in the Best of the Boards... but it got me thinking, "Who is this dude?"
In my other reading, I see Vecna shows up as a major Greyhawk nasty. His exploits as documented in the Oerth Journal are many and evocative. I then read "Die Vecna Die!", co-authored by Bruce Cordell - there are references in there to the Serpent, one of the "Ancient Brethren", who whispers into Vecna's ear and gives him the secret of magic.
I also pick up "Oathbound" on recommendation from one of my players - it's about a mighty god imprisoned by other gods too. His servants have been co-opted as keepers of his prison and bound by mighty Oaths. Over the course of millenia, they have pulled matter into the demi-plane, forming a world... they now pull others into their world, seeking to circumvent their oaths and be free - and some of them seek to free the unnamed deity as well.
So, with this in mind and unashamedly stealing from Greek myth and throwing in a dash of Roger Zelazny and Raymond E. Feist:
* In the beginning, there were the Ancient Brethren. Perhaps they were the creators of the multiverse; perhaps they were its first progeny? No-one now knows, except perhaps Istus, and she is silent on the matter.
* The Ancient Brethren were equally cruel, gentle, vicious, merciful, brilliant and insensate; by any of our measures, they were insane.
* Somewhere along the line, the gods came into existence. They were younger then, and only newly come into their power. Perhaps it is they who first create life, but it is destroyed by the Brethren's vagaries. Perhaps they endure eons of servitude at the Brethren's hands. But eventually, they decide something must be done. Maybe some of the evil deities side with the Ancient Brethren; maybe some of them side with the coalition, desiring the freedom to rule in their own right. After a titanic battle in which many (most?) of the gods themselves are destroyed, the Ancient Brethren are vanquished, one by one.
* But the combined power of the gods who remain is not enough to destroy these primal creatures. So the survivors imprison them, binding them as securely they know how, with chains that they fully expect to last for eternity.
* But despite their confinement, a fraction of each Ancient Brethren's consciousness remains. Partially awake, striving against their prison, their awareness leaks into the multiverse. They gain worshippers and servants. Tharizdun touches the empire of the Suel, resulting in Tilorop becoming the world's first lich; the Serpent whispers the secret of Magic to Vecna; the Oathbound draw creatures into their world.
* In the millenia since, the gods have multiplied; perhaps their strength has grown since that first flowering in their youth, and they foolishly think they are a match for those old, old creatures who have surely become weaker in their prisons over these long ages. Perhaps the more recently ascended no longer truly believe in the power of the Ancient Brethren, and think it just a tale told by the old gods to frighten them. Perhaps despite their divinity and divine senses, there is a blind spot concerning the Brethren that they do not know exists. Their attention is elsewhere.
For me, this explains how Tharizdun could masquerade as the Elder Elemental Eye - although imprisoned, he is a being of a different magnitude to a normal deities. Although he cannot grant spells to worshippers in his own name unless they are at a site of his power, with a metaphysical backflip, he can as the EEE.
Any comments or feedback?
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msherman
A song from the sixties
(5/21/03 5:22 am)
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Re: Tharizdun background (muchly Greyhawk influenced)
Quote:
For me, this explains how Tharizdun could masquerade as the Elder Elemental Eye - although imprisoned, he is a being of a different magnitude to a normal deities. Although he cannot grant spells to worshippers in his own name unless they are at a site of his power, with a metaphysical backflip, he can as the EEE.
I mentioned this in another thread, so you may have already seen it. The way I'm handling the EEE/Tharizdun relationship IMC is that the EEE is in fact Tharizdun's actual eye, which he plucked out of his own head and threw into the elemental planes as he was being imprisioned. That gives him a weak link to worshipers, despite his imprisionment. The gods don't even know it's his eye, and are unaware of the connection, thanks to the "blind spot" you describe.
I may play up the missing eye/Vecna parallel a bit, too.
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Eltern
A song from the sixties
(5/21/03 1:37 pm)
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Yes!
The subject of Tharizdun's past is VERY interesting to me, simply because I don't want to leave any question unanswered, and because as soon as as RttToEE is done my party will go on a journey across the space-time continum.....doing something. At the end of the our adventure, Orcus will have returned to full glory, foiling Tharizdun's attempts to be freed with the Orb of Oblivion, and the First will be running around somewhere in time. Already I have things like the party cleric finding his own corpse (He'll die in the past), etc,etc. So any knowledge of Big T's past would be great. I'm thinking a race to find the Theoparts, which only exist at certain points in history, would be good.
From your description of the primal beings, they sound a lot to me what the aspects of the Elder Elemental Eye are supposed to be, according to some versions of Greyhawk canon. Three distinct beings collectively make up the EEE, each looking something like a giant octopus or somesuch. This is why the symbol of the EEE has three parts, etc.
Just saying, this could add fuel to the creative fire.
Eltern
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