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A song from the sixties
(5/27/03 12:22 pm)
anyone elses grp got the 50K magic item?
My group found out about the 50K magic item gained if you complete the ritual in the fire temple, and 2 of them managed to pull it off.

I wasn't really sure if it was meant for party members, but I couldn't see a reason why not. (The 2 will be suffering a little for what they have done though).

One thing about that I thought was a little crazy. Your the head of an evil Fire Temple, with lots of powerful people at your command, and a device which gives a 50,000 gold magic item for the pitiful expense of a sacrifice. You'd have picked the place clean of people and have a small pile of bloody nice magic items before you could say "what tentacle?" ;)

Anyway - just wondering if anyone else's party had done the same?


A trophy
(5/27/03 2:32 pm)
Re: anyone elses grp got the 50K magic item?
I think Monte suggested imposing a limit of either 1 / day or 1 / month or something to limit potential abuse. See the RttToEE FAQ sticky thread.

A boxing glove
(5/28/03 3:31 am)
Magic Item Machine - price 'one sacrafice'
The downside to the Altars is the need for a sentient living creature which is utterly destroyed by the altar - make no mistake, there's no grey area here - this is a despicable act of utter evil...are your group evil?

My group know all about the ritual and to their credit have never considered it - not even the slightly dodgy one...I think :)

The altars give gifts >from Tharizdun< - they're not magic item vendors.

Limiting the power to once a month worked for me as a logical reason why Tessimon didn't rule the world already.

A trophy
(5/28/03 4:04 am)
Re: Magic Item Machine - price 'one sacrafice'
This topic has come up a several times before. If you poke around you should be able to find it, unless if it dropped off.

There were (are?) even some DMs who metagamed/scheemed what Tess would get so that when PCs defeated her they couldn't use or sell it. There arguement was that a 50k item was too much to put in the hands of the PCs. Personally, I partially sympathize with that but then I also feel if its too rich for the PCs its too rich for the NPCs (Tess in this case). So in addition to putting in the 1/month limit (which Monte stated was supposed to be there) I would also seriously consider dropping the cash value of the item. At least for the fire temple alter, I'd consider the recovered temple alter to be of higher strength.

"It takes an uncommon mind to think of these things, Hobbes." - Calvin

A song from the sixties
(5/28/03 7:58 am)
Re: Magic Item Machine - price 'one sacrafice'
I am an old time gamer and long ago I played 2nd edition, an evil campaign. We worshipped Ghaunadaur from 2nd the Drow and the Underdark book. The big T is very similar to Ghaunadaur and this altar of life to magic items is used in his worship too, as are the tentacle rods.

Anyhow, we pretty much conquered the world with the altar by sacrificing countless peoples for magic items of our choice.

PCs must not get access to this altars power for long if ever.

A trophy
(5/28/03 8:12 am)
Re: Magic Item Machine - price 'one sacrafice'
Remember that although there is this 50k limit, there's probably no way any NPC really knows that. They may be aware of some limit to the quality of the item. It's not hard to link that to the quality of the sacrifice (true or not). But knowing the awesome, yet chaotic power behind the gift, will even a half-crazed cleric dare to push that limit? What if the sacrifice were not enough for the item wished for? Perhaps the alter adds to the offering by snarfing the officiant.

Now, none of this really has to be 'real' in the sense that there aren't rules for what I mentioned, but if you get into the head of someone who is operating this alter, you can come up with many plausible reasons why even the NPCs aren't coming close to this 50k limit out of sheer respect for the power and uncertainty about the details of its working.

As for PC's using it, it's 100% evil. If that's not a deterrent (i.e. you're running an evil campaign or you're OK with radical alignment shifts), you probably should really consider some sort of madness/insanity scale for your PCs (I think there are some suggestions in the BoB for this). Otherwise, you're taking out one of the major divisions between the PCs and NPCs. They should be challenged (well, imho) by something other than just the physical obstacles. Whether that's riding the fine line of destroying evil while staying 'good' or eliminating the madness of the DD's before it consumes the world (removing much of the 'fun' of being evil) while trying to avoid becoming mad yourself, there needs to be some consequences for using big-T's channels.

And I'm not saying a general (and fun) campaign can be run without these things, I just think that this particular adventure is set up for them. If you make it a free-for-all, you're going to have to deal with serious balance issues that aren't taken into account as it is written.

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A song from the sixties
(5/28/03 8:15 am)
Re: anyone elses grp got the 50K magic item?
The common way to handle this is to:
1) restrict it to 1/month
2) Its a recent addition to the power of the altar

The power shouldn't be a problem, due to the sacrifice, unless your PCs are evil.

A song from the sixties
(5/28/03 10:16 am)
Re: anyone elses grp got the 50K magic item?
LOL - well one is an assassin, and hence evil - the other is a chaotic neutral cleric with a definate bend towards evil. This has caused many party rucksions, but so far PC Deathmatch has been avoided. They managed to sneak off from the party while they were busy elsewhere, and did the ritual with the elf prisoner who was in the Iron Maiden.

Needless to say, the cleric who was involved has shifted alignment to evil now, and while he didn't actually do the ritual (the assassin did) he was involved enough to have annoyed his God. :o )

The assassin had actually picked up the Demonstone beforehand, so I got him to do the save a little early - right in the middle of the ritual. If he hadn't saved, he'd have been wishing for a wand of 10th lvl fireball and a 10th lvl lightning bolt and started frying the party :O). Still .... he saved :O)

Thanks for the advice


Lobo Lurker
A song from the sixties
(5/29/03 4:54 am)
Re: anyone elses grp got the 50K magic item?
Slightly off topic...
There's an article on... ( See ENworld's news from yesterday or Tuesday). It's about the role of Evil alignments in the world. You should encourage your players to read it if they see evil as a psycho/socio-pathic murdering, backstabbing excuse.

Just thought I'd point that out.

LL  >D

A song from the sixties
(5/29/03 8:36 am)
Re: anyone elses grp got the 50K magic item?
You should consider using the Sacrifice Rules from BoVD and adding some sort of variant about a costly magic item. Any item created should have an Evil Taint (strong) and look wickedly "Far Realms-like" with twisted art, strange-angles, tentacles, and anything else that oozes an ungodly feel.

Roland the red
A cup of coffee
(5/29/03 11:08 am)
The Alter (mispell intentional)
The Altar is essentially dedicated to Tharzidun. Though certifiably mad, the clerics of the elements, EEE, and Tharzidun aren't STUPID! Tharzidun's gift can be as much of a bane, as well as blessing...Consider: The PCs do not know the GP limit, this gives DMs leeway to add 'nasty' little tweaks to the magic item requested.

A +2 Greatsword with Intelligence...a mad, malevolent intelligence that seeks the destruction of all living things, including the wielder...

A wand of Fireballs (10th level as suggested) that has a range of zero...

A cloak of Invisibility that leaves the wearer visible but all his items (clothes, armor, everything) are invisible...

Or, alternatively, if you use the Book of Hallowed Might, you could have the characters alignment shift one point toward evil and one point toward chaotic permanently...or allow a save each time it is used to push the alignment, but can occur repeatedly...While on this topic, I think homicidal maniac evil is appropriate for this module, and if the players become increasingly more evil and such, then allow for their success to fuel the freeing of Tharzidun more so than the rituals performed by the second...that is, the second becomes the ultimate sacrifce, and the evil of the players frees the Dark God...You win! But the worls id destroyed. Roll up 1st level characters in a new setting...this one doesn't exist.

The idea is that these items should be tainted...strongly so, in a twisted, perverted way that twists all uses towards destruction, even the users destruction...Tharzidun cares not.

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