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Asperix
A cup of coffee
(5/29/03 3:11 pm)
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CRM Water Temple Q
The group is at the CRM water temple. The party has 3 clerics. I'm surprised by the interpretation of the rules in how the huge water elemental can be easily by-passed. According to the module, the water elemental is brought forth by a sacrifice and blowing the 2 horns.
1a) Does this technically mean the water elem is a 'summoned' creature?
1b) 'prot from evil' prevents bodily contact by a 'summoned creature'. Does that mean 'prot from evil' cast on everyone can ignore the water elemental and concentrate on all other opponents? Does that mean the water elemental's vortex ability is also nullified against the PCs?
2a) Also, the corridors leading into the water temple are very narrow. Can a fighter w/'pro from evil' easily block a corridor so the rest of the party can safely retreat out of the area?
2b) Or can the water elemental "morph" into a different shape and by-pass the protected fighter to get at the PCs in the back?
-Asperix
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 Infiniti2000
A guitar
(5/29/03 3:44 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: CRM Water Temple Q
"1a) Does this technically mean the water elem is a 'summoned' creature?"
I personally don't think so. It merely says that the elemental appears. It does not specifiy summoning or calling (big difference). Since a time limit is also not provided, I would argue for calling. Thus, the rest of your questions would be easily answered since protection from evil does not hedge out called beings.
However, if you rule it as summoned, the following answers apply:
"1b) 'prot from evil' prevents bodily contact by a 'summoned creature'. Does that mean 'prot from evil' cast on everyone can ignore the water elemental and concentrate on all other opponents?"
As long as they do not approach the water elemental (for magic circle) or attack it.
"Does that mean the water elemental's vortex ability is also nullified against the PCs?"
Yes. The protection spell hedges out the creature, not its ranged attacks, but vortex is not a ranged attack. The vortex would need to encompass the PCs.
"2a) Also, the corridors leading into the water temple are very narrow. Can a fighter w/'pro from evil' easily block a corridor so the rest of the party can safely retreat out of the area?"
A fighter with magic circle against evil, which is a 10ft radius, could if he were at the center of a 20ft-wide corridor. A simple protection from evil, however, is only 1ft from the person.
"2b) Or can the water elemental "morph" into a different shape and by-pass the protected fighter to get at the PCs in the back?"
It's not explicit that a water elemental can morph, but that seems logical, but probably only if it is still in the water. If the fighter had magic circle, remember that it is a sphere, so theoretically, the elemental might be able to go above/under the exterior edges. Be careful on this though and judge the elemental's intelligence vs its direction from the summoners (the horn blowers). If the party were badly hurt and just trying to flee, I would have the elemental hedged out and give them that ability. Don't punish them too badly for actually wanting to flee. 
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Trithereon
A robot with powers
(5/30/03 1:08 am)
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Re: CRM Water Temple Q
I agree with Infiniti that the elemental is Called, not Summoned for the exact reason he has stated. Summoned creatures have their presence limited by spell duration while Called creatures do not. As there is no specified duration then I'd support the argument that the elemental is Called and therefore not subject to the "hedging out" affects of a Protection from Evil - but since it is evil then the recipient would still benefit from the AC and saving throw enhancements.
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The guy from Belgium
A song from the sixties
(5/30/03 2:41 am)
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Re: CRM Water Temple Q
i'd go with the elemental being neutral as usual, but under the compulsion to do evil things...
so protection from evil wouldn't be effective
in nature, the elemental is still neutral, but due to the 'bad influence' of the temples, he's forced to protect the temples against those whom the leaders of the temple (the 'summoner') points out
in the mind of the elemental, he's not performing evil acts... he's just carrying out orders and thus should stay neutral...
he's not around long enough to turn fully evil yet
just my two copper
Philip
http://users.pandora.be/Philip/dnd |
Trithereon
A robot with powers
(5/30/03 3:50 am)
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Re: CRM Water Temple Q
Belgium Guy,
The adventure states that when the horns are blown at the same time: "a huge water elemental of evil alignment appears and serves the trumpeters". As written the evilness of the elemental is not in debate, just the nature of its conjuration.
Respectfully,
Trithereon
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The guy from Belgium
A song from the sixties
(5/30/03 5:05 am)
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Re: CRM Water Temple Q
ah, in that case, i satnd corrected 
it's not like i ran off to reread that part of the module, i just went with the general idea that a summoned creature has its normal allignment during its stay here
ok, thanks for setting me straight
Philip
http://users.pandora.be/Philip/dnd |
ZansForCans 
A trophy
(5/30/03 7:14 am)
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Re: CRM Water Temple Q
Quote:
Thus, the rest of your questions would be easily answered since protection from evil does not hedge out called beings.
Aw, do I have to drag out that argument again?
I won't belabor it since I've done so a few times before, but if you so desire, there is ample (if not overwhelming) evidence in the RAW that Called creatures are also affected by Protection spells. (Read magic circle and the Calling section on the PHB 157, if you want to trace my thinking).
I understand the wish not to overpower Protection, but I think of it as little more than a tailered and limited (only physical contact) sanctuary.
To each (campaign), their own, though
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smetzger
A song from the sixties
(5/30/03 7:24 am)
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Re: CRM Water Temple Q
Remember that the corridors are pretty high. So if the Water Elemental may be able to jump over the fighter, provided he can jump 10' high and 20' long.
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