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Kumpir
Human
(6/19/03 1:16 pm)
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Need opinions and advice
I'd like some opinions, please.

In my ongoing RttToEE campaign. the party just returned to Hommlet from the Moathouse dungeons, without going down into the cave with the black obelisk. They found the journal of Geynor Tom, and returned to the town.

They took the journal, symbols of Tharizdun and the EEE, and the weird statue-thing they found in the area 32 (the room just over the pit) to the temple of St. Cuthbert, even thought they're very much at odds with the temple staff (ever since the barbarian almost attacked the 6th-level adventuring cleric fellow whose name escapes me at the moment).

Now, the party was in conflich with Chatrilon Unosh from earlier in the adventure (when he offered to take them to the ruined temple, and dissappeared in the woods, leaving them; he later claimed he was ambushed by the hobgoblins, and managed to escape, but fell unconscious due to the wounds, and only Jaroo's timely arrival saved him -- the (false) Jaroo would support this story if anyone bothered to ask), and now they have the evidence that he is indeed up to no good (the party's paladin detected him as dimly evil earlier).

The way I think the situation could develop from here: The party is sent back to the moathouse to see what the big thing in that pit was. The clerics are all packed, getting ready to leave and just waiting for that cart from Hommlet, so the party will have to unseal the pit again. Elmo takes Chatrilon to prison, and investigates him. City militia goes to the mill and does its job. The town officials learn of the cult's presence, and they discover something's happening in Rastor, and they send the party to investigate.

Now, since the party did do a favour to the town, and they did come to the temple of St. Cuthbert first, I'm inclined to have Cannoness forgive them for their transgressions against the church.

The story behind it is that three (out of five) party members suffered permanent Wisdom damage from the allip in Nulb. One of them is the barbarian, Grom Hellscream.
When they returned to Hommlet (and before they went to the moathouse), they went to the temple of St. Cuthbert. The acolyte welcomed them and Grom said: "I'm feeling a bit dull. Can you fix that?" The acolyte didn't quite understand what Grom meant, believing he was referring to his +1 greatsword (named Whisper), and a small argument broke out (doing nothing to endear the barbarian to the acolyte). Finally understanding what Grom wanted,the acolyte went and fetched Terjon (that's his name! :) ).

This time, Grom was even more fluent: "Me dull. Not sword. *Grom* dull. You fix." Terjon chuckled, and said to the paladin accompanying Grom that he believed Heal would serve their purpose better. Grom felt offended, drew his sword, and almost attacked Terjon.

Needless to say, they didn't get any restoration spells cast on them.

So, what do you think? Suggestions? Comments?

Thanks in advance!

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(6/19/03 5:09 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Need opinions and advice
Grom drew his weapon against the priest in his temple? No way will he be forgiven anytime soon.

Question: is the player for Grom brand new? If so, let him/her know that drawing his weapon like that was s-t-u-p-i-d. Tell him not to do that again and not be "trigger" happy. If the player is relatively experienced, however....

He will need to do a lot to atone for this one. I can't think of anything off hand, but it would have to be something big, and church related. Since I would not want to tie the church too deeply into the plot of the module at this point, I would make it something else and have the player roll up a new, but temporary character at least one level behind (or use an NPC like Questin). When everyone else has earned enough XP to go up a level, Grom will have finished his task (maybe painting the temple or something) and may rejoin the group. That should punish Grom enough to know not to do completely stupid things in the future.

Kumpir
Human
(6/20/03 3:05 am)
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Re: Need opinions and advice
[quote] Question: is the player for Grom brand new? If so, let him/her know that drawing his weapon like that was s-t-u-p-i-d. Tell him not to do that again and not be "trigger" happy. If the player is relatively experienced, however....[/quote]

No, he's not new to the game. He's been playing 3e since it's debut, and has used 2e for a couple of years before that.

If the paladin didn't stop him, he'd attack Terjon (Clr 6, he was Bbn 4 at the time), who would probably [i]hold person[/i] him, wherefore Grom would have started plotting the destruction of St. Cuthbert's temple... :rolleyes

As for atoning, [b]Grom[/b] will not atone. In his reasoning, the cleric is an idiot who is absolutely not worth his time. (Mind you, the player has trouble understanding that the campaign does [b]not[/b] revolve about his character, or PCs in general -- I'm inclined to believe that these are munchkin-mindset leftovers from his previous group).

Anyways, thanks for commenting.

Regards.

Edited by: Kumpir at: 6/20/03 3:06 am
Offgall Fizziwigg
Faen
(6/20/03 4:39 am)
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Re: Need opinions and advice
I would say the group would have to find a new temple in Hommlet to deal with. You don't draw weapons in a temple, especially to threaten one of their employees. Perhaps the paladin could visit that temple, but I would say Grom would not be welcome. They might even tell the other temples what Grom did, making it difficult for him to get any help from the temples in Hommlet. :rollin

ZansForCans 
Faen
(6/22/03 7:06 pm)
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Re: Need opinions and advice
Hmmm.... are you sure that this wasn't just good role-playing on the player's part? How low was his Wis?

That's the exact kind of lack of jugdement that I'd expect from a very low Wis character. IMC, one player stood on the sun for 2 rounds thinking it would do somehitng. His Wis dropped to something like 4. A few minutes later, while everyone else was busy exploring the room, he decided that touching the shiny black doorway was a good idea... A few minutes earlier, before the sun, he deliberately avoided the thing. His natural curiosity was untempered by his Wis in the player's eyes. Perhaps in your case the natural aggression of the barb was the thing unchecked.

If his Wis was really low at the time, this actually gives them a nice RP option to get back into the Church's graces--or at least off their hate list ;)

Anyway... there's an opposing view for you :)


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Cordo Crowfoot
Faen
(6/22/03 8:29 pm)
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Re: Need opinions and advice
Zans makes a good point, he can make a good excuse that he was mentally disturbed and not himself from the Wisdom drain. But you seem to be saying this is a player issue so it is doubtful that he will use this excuse to apologize.

If that is the case, I think you should make him (and his companions unless they can talk their way out of it) face the consequences of his actions.

I had a similar case, one of my players whenever he thought I was trying to rip him off as a DM would metagame and get all upset and self righteous in character, despite the fact that the character had high charisma. This happened with Y'Dey in Hommlet he didn't like her hard headed demands that they "pay their way" as per the book and misinterpreted it as greed. (I also used the suggestion from the original module that you had to make a "donation" to even meet the Canoness which probably increased their feeling that the Church was milking them of their funds.) So the PC and player really got into it with Y'Dey accusing her of greed. That didn't go over well at all.

Again, with Tymerian when the same player and PC asked for magical services, he was upset when Tymerian quoted prices much higher than are in the Player's Handbook. Two reasons for this: 1) Tymerian at the time did not know the group, and after her experience there I think she would be more circumspect about casting spells for strangers, and 2) she knows she is the only person in town offering such services. Again, he goes off on the NPC in-character because he as a player is upset...

"They were immediately and absolutely recognizable as adventurers. They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stripped of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came... They were scum who died violent deaths, hanging on to a certain cachet among the impressionable through their undeniable bravery and their occasionally impressive exploits" China Mieville, Perdido Street Station

Kumpir
Human
(6/24/03 8:40 am)
Reply
Re: Need opinions and advice
Quote:

ZansForCans said:

Hmmm.... are you sure that this wasn't just good role-playing on the player's part? How low was his Wis?

If his Wis was really low at the time, this actually gives them a nice RP option to get back into the Church's graces--or at least off their hate list ;)


No, unfortunately not, this was definitely the result of a good role-playing... His Wisdom was (is) 9. That's not low. That's only slightly below human (or elf, or dwarf, or halfling, or gnome, or even half-orc) average.

Quote:

Cordo Crowfoot said:

I had a similar case, one of my players whenever he thought I was trying to rip him off as a DM would metagame and get all upset and self righteous in character, despite the fact that the character had high charisma. This happened with Y'Dey in Hommlet he didn't like her hard headed demands that they "pay their way" as per the book and misinterpreted it as greed. (I also used the suggestion from the original module that you had to make a "donation" to even meet the Canoness which probably increased their feeling that the Church was milking them of their funds.) So the PC and player really got into it with Y'Dey accusing her of greed. That didn't go over well at all.

Again, with Tymerian when the same player and PC asked for magical services, he was upset when Tymerian quoted prices much higher than are in the Player's Handbook. Two reasons for this: 1) Tymerian at the time did not know the group, and after her experience there I think she would be more circumspect about casting spells for strangers, and 2) she knows she is the only person in town offering such services. Again, he goes off on the NPC in-character because he as a player is upset...


Am I allowed a little rant? It won't be too long, I promise.

See, this group of mine, actually only the major part -- three of the five players -- don't know how to role-play. That's not "how to get totaly in their character", but role-play in it's most basic sence -- accepting the idea that while sitting about that table, you're not playing yourself, you're playing a character.

I don't require anyone to act, to speak in funny voices, to jump up-and-down. I don't believe a crippled character whose strongest ability score is 11 is the only proper character for role-playing. But, I do expect that players to leave the this-is-a-game-where-the-world-revolves-about-my-character idea at home.

And they don't.

The other DM in our little group, who DMed exclusively for the past two or three years, has a fondness for frustrating, unsolvable campaigns, where everybody and their aunt are mighty spellcasters, extrapalanar entitites, or just plain old deities, pitted against the characters, and following their every move, whereas characters don't even know who they're fgighting against. PCs generally oknow only that there are a lot of those who want to see them dead.

So, I figured, the party would like a change. They supported the idea. I told them that this was a book adventure. Not custom-made. I told them it was difficult. Had them make their characters with a 35 point buy. Made up a little GH background booklet, with basic GH races, to add a bit of flavour.

Only the wizard's player appreciated this. Basically, only he read it (although that isn't entirely correct, he is the only one who tried to stick to it).

Now, I will continue this campaign. But only if they do. The main reason I stopped DMing before is because of th elack of time to make adventures (I'm not one of those talented DMs who can wig it all the way, I have to have everything in front of me). If they decide to sabotage the whole thing, and I heard they might -- there was talk about them going to Verbobonc and leaving the whole Hommlet thing behind.

::Whew!::

This took up more space then I intended. I appologise for that.

Anyways, I'll just have to deal with this. Hopefuly something good will come out of it :D

Thanks for helping.

TheOutlands
Litorian
(6/25/03 1:14 pm)
Reply
Re: Need opinions and advice
Oi - and I thought *I* had it bad when my party's Paladin wanted to sell everything they'd found - including the unearthed "relics" (torch of revealing and incense included)!!!

--Michael<br>
http://outlands.tripod.com<br>
homesteading, survival, self-reliance, and a whole lot more

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