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CelticSoulnado
Human
(7/1/03 12:26 pm)
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I think were overpowered...do you?
Hi, im new to these boards...ive been a lurker for a few days now. I wanted to take the time to at least browse the past posts and ive gotten a lot of great things im going to integrate into my campaign, and hopefully i wont be posting anything that has already been covered.

My first problem is this. Our party has only three people.
I am one of them, playing an NPC character i have created.

I am...Christoph Silverwood- Aasimar Pal (9) of pelor.
then thers...Daemon Swiftfoot- Elven ftr4/wiz4/arcarch2
And last...Brottor Battlehammer- Dwarf Clr10 of Moradin.

We began play with miself, and 5 pcs...but its been a solid year now, and we have lost three of our players..so now were down to two and a dm.

However, i seem to be internally bothered by the fact that the three of us are able to walk through the CRM, paying no attention to being careful...and we arent scared at all. If we walk into a room, its pretty much a slaughterfest for everyone there.

Heres the thing... my characters stats are so high and we are so damn rich its hard to find a good challenge nemore...and its cut down on role playing bc we dont need to be careful.

Listen to this, and tell me if were a bit too powerful. We have just finished the grand crypt and are about to come to Eastern Bridge complex. Here are a quick idea of the stats.

My paladin christoph...Cha 22- put an 18 in it at first, lvl 4 and lvl 8 makes it a 20, then the aasimar boosts it two. Str was a 17, after eating the fruit its 18...and now with d'grans gauntlets of ogre power, im at 20. my Dex is 15, con is 16, wis is 15 with the aasimar boost, and int is like 12. Hes currently fighting with a str+5 mwmc long bow, and the sword of air.

Daemon had a 17 in str which he advanced at lvl 4 to 18. Then his dex was an 18, which goes to 20 bc of elf and 8th lvl brings him to 21. he has a decent con, another like 17 or so in intelligence, a low cha, and a decent wis.

I dont know, but it seems like we should be a lot more challenged. It seems like for a group of three were doing an aweful amount of damage. And bw my lay hands and The clerics amt of healing, we just plain out kik ass. Is the campaign supposed to be this easy up to here? Now that were basically on the other side of the ring, we have to do the other side, which goes down in level...so it would appear things are going to go even easier. What shoudl i do to stop this bloodbath?

btw..the clerics stats are like
str 17,dex 14,con 18,int 15,wis 19,cha 15

Andorax
Verrik
(7/1/03 12:47 pm)
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Re: I think were overpowered...do you?
I'm not sure how you came by excessive wealth, unless you've had other things going besides this adventure...if anything, RttToEE seems to be a bit underpowered for wealth unless the party hauls a metric ton or two of masterwork gear hundreds of miles to Verbobonc to sell (and several have).

I will openly say that there are two major factors to the "overpoweredness" you're mentioning, at least that I see:

1) Your ability scores are pretty dang high. It sounds like you are either using VERY generous point buy, or very generous rolling rules, or they just had a run of substantial luck with fair rolls. Any of the above can make PCs that are significantly more powerful for their level.

2) You seem to be allowing outside materials above and beyond the standard rules...Aasimars aren't one of the standard races (although they are core, legitimately so), and I don't even know what an "arcarch" is, so I can't really comment.

At this point, yes, you should be kicking rear right now. The CRM is but a distraction anyways, with the main mechanical goal of getting the PCs up to right around 10th, which is where they're at.

So the CRM's done it's job. Tell us...which temples have been taken out? If the PCs have wiped out two temples, they will have attracted Hedrack's attention (Outer Fane), and he will be sending foes after them to take down this serious threat to the whole operation. In order:

1) Either Victor or Bethe, one of the two Assassins...likely at night during the PC's normal "camping time".

2) Ukemill and his Fiendish Dire Lions.

3) Both Invisible Stalkers from near the Air Gate.

If all three fail to dissuade your PCs (and we can only hope they'll fail, else there's not much adventure left), he'll "circle the wagons" and wait for the PCs to attack the Outer Fane, trusting in it's defenses.

I think you will find, especially lacking a primary arcane caster, that the Outer Fane is MUCH more challenging for your PCs than the CRM. An encounter with Chymon, or the Elder Earth Elemental, should definately humble them a bit.


If the PCs don't want to press on into the Outer Fane just yet, you don't have to push them on it. Circling back around will reach the point of diminishing returns quite soon where it's hardly worth the XP...and they're going to get tired of whoever's sending the attackers in the night too.

I guess the key thing is...don't stop the bloodbath. Let the PCs continue until they tire of it. If given time and warning, have the remaining temples outright abandon their posts and flee from the CRM area. But let them enjoy their rampage for now...it'll be ending really soon.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

JRedGiant
Faen
(7/1/03 1:11 pm)
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Re: I think were overpowered...do you?
The ability stats are very high, but you're short one man. Plus, there are only two true players...more minds at the table make things easier for PC's.

I'm not as far into my campaign as you are so it's hard to confirm, but what Andorax says makes a lot of sense about the diminishing returns of the CRM and the dangers of the Fanes. I'd like to add that, as you mentioned, you're new to this board and have picked up some ideas that you'll be integrating. Some of the tactical improvements, splat book and BoVD changes, etc..., will make the module more challenging.

CelticSoulnado
Human
(7/1/03 1:32 pm)
Reply
Re: I think were overpowered...do you?
thanks for the help. To clarify things a bit more...

ArcArch= arcane archer, my nPCs backround is posted under the thread thrommel plot twist in case your curious, and im aware that aasimar isnt a core class, but notice i am one level lower than the rest due to the +1 LA. And yes, we wiped the floor with the air and fire temples, as well as all the other stuff up to hear lol.

I have realized that my roll system is definately too generous, ill be preventing that in further campaigns.

Also i made one extremely successful modification to toee with the BOVD...but i was wondering, where can i post it?

Im still looking for advice tho, so keep it coming. Thanks.

Cordo Crowfoot
Faen
(7/1/03 4:44 pm)
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Re: I think were overpowered...do you?
Another question since you are also playing a character while you DM... As DM are you prepared to kill your character if it comes down to it?

In this case you have to be careful you aren't subconsciously pulling punches.

CelticSoulnado
Human
(7/1/03 5:57 pm)
Reply
Re: I think were overpowered...do you?
i was uncertain of that when we started. I didnt know if i would have the heart to kill Christoph. But..

He used to be the secondary, and now hes the primary tank. Hes been at -9 and received a point of healing just in time on more than 5 occasions. Thank the gods my friend the priest always has Stasis on!

Caedrel
Faen
(7/1/03 6:43 pm)
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Re: I think we're overpowered...do you?
I also think you've taken on a tough job for yourself - I'm running Descritad as an NPC a the moment, and that hasn't been too bad - I've got her personality clearly defined and all, but more importantly, I don't have any emotional investment in her - I haven't built her up from a low level, mapped out her future, established a friendship or any of that stuff that is part of the joy of being a player.

It sounds like you do care about what happens to Christoph. Coming up with a reasonable explanation for him not dying is fine - in fact, I try to do this whenever possible for everyone in my group (except when they're being foolhardy). But the more subliminal part of it is that your PC somehow manages to uncover most of the good perks and avoid some of the nasty hurts that they might have otherwise stumbled in to. It's not really "cheating", but the sensible and thorough precautions taken turn out to be very effective...

The black fruit is a good example. It's hard enough gaining entry to the Black Node - torch of revealing, gem at the obelisk's base, touching it, etc; eating it is another challenge altogether (which has been discussed extensively here). I had to almost force this upon my players because I thought it was cool; in retrospect, I should have rewarded their RPing in *not* eating the fruit. How much of a struggle was this choice for Christoph? That would indicate to me how hard a task this is for you.

And it's going to be especially hard if, for example, you'd really like to see Thrommel redeemed, but the other two aren't that keen on it. Can you see the conflict involved? I'd say you really should try and find a couple of new players and new PCs and maybe allow Christoph to "retire" gracefully (or die heroically - that also works for me :) )

CelticSoulnado
Human
(7/1/03 7:22 pm)
Reply
Re: I think we're overpowered...do you?
:rollin

this is the perfect example.

One instance yes would be the dark fruit. First of all i modified it so that there was a wavy purple hazy area where the torch was supposed to be used...bc i didnt think they would ever think to use it on their own. However, christoph was sitting there the entire time telling them that it was a bad idea. Once they disapearred of course i followed them, they could have needed my help. Once inside he got really pissed when they were actually considering eating the "dark fruit"....i mean jeeze you guys are just asking for trouble. But again, when they disappeared, what else was i supposed to do....sit there while my friends could be being slaughtered. Im not gonna say there have prolly been times where stuff i may have altered my decisions subconsciously...but most likely its more often than not i try not to metagame.

And yea, ive considered killing off christoph before. He lost a good friend in the fight against Vranthis. The party was doing pretty bad, and the rogue was lying right by the pyramid disabled....he set it off in the hopes it might help somehow, then croaked. he managed to stabilize, but then the girralon tore his body in half over his head and charged into battle a crimson red on the top and white on the bottom :evil

I called for a retreat, and then when they realized i wasnt with them, they went back to see where i was. I was fighting the dragon, and they commanded me...via spell lol, neway i failed, and had to come back. Im glad he didnt die, but if he were to, i dont think id be too upset.

And with that thrommel thing...u should read my post about that, its pretty interesting. its called modified thrommel plot, i could use your opinion.

Edited by: CelticSoulnado at: 7/1/03 7:31 pm
Andorax
Verrik
(7/2/03 6:43 am)
Reply
Re: I think we're overpowered...do you?
CelticSoulnado, in answer to your question about a BoVD idea, my suggestion is this.

Start a new thread called "More BoVD ideas". Post your idea, and ask if anyone else has thought of anything new that isn't already in the BoB BoVD post.

After a while, your idea should be picked up and moved in, along with anything else new that's come about since.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

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