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ZansForCans 
Litorian
(8/9/03 6:57 pm)
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Re: More new stat block info
Yeah, I saw that you did that in some of your recent ones. I think I'm personally leaning toward having the Atk line all green, and the Full Atk line colored only for changes since as you've pointed out, it really is the same as the old Atk line. Since the Atk line (99% of the time) duplicates one of the attacks in the Full Atk line, I think we maximize the communication to the DM of what has changed.

Anyone have other opinions about it? I won't change what I've already put in yet (check the draft, if you're curious how it stands now) until I hear a little more...


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Siobharek 
Verrik
(8/10/03 9:45 am)
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ezSupporter

Re: More new stat block info
Unless there's a change in attack bonuses, I'd leave them in ordinary colours.

3 months from now, the mere presence of a full attack line will be as ingrained as just 3 saving throws were 3 months after 3.0 came out. Marking the full attack in the change colour just because of a different way of writing it will confuse die-hard 3.5'ers a year from now.

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

msherman
Faen
(8/11/03 4:31 am)
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Layout request: Insane wisdom
Zans, I have a "feature request" for the layout of the final doc you're doing. For insane cultists, could you please note the insane wisdom in brackets in the ability block? Ie: for a 5th level cleric born with 17 wisdom: Wis 17 (15)

The insanity bonus is only used for spells, and it's complete effects are already figured into the DCs and spell slots chosen in the stat blocks. But the insanity penalty is used for lots of stuff not noted in the stat blocks, and I frequently find myself glancing at the Wisdom score in the stat blocks in the module and forgetting to apply Insanity to it in play.

ZansForCans 
Litorian
(8/11/03 10:03 pm)
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Re: Layout request: Insane wisdom
msherman: I like that idea as well. Another option might be to mark it with an * or some symbol, linked to the Insanity description. Comments?

Re: Atk/Full Atk lines. If no one has any further strong opinions, I'm going to go with I2k's markings and urge others to do so too for new ones that you put up (I'll change the ones already there--don't do more work for it). Basically, only mark in green those things that are statistically different from the text. Don't highlight the whole Atk or Full Atk line unless it's completely new for some mechanical reason.

Finally, I noticed a few of you are listing attacks with the weapon out front like the MM does: "greatsword +7 melee (3d6+7/19-20)". Stat blocks are a little different: "+7 melee (3d6+7/19-20, greatsword)". Again, if you think about it, can you write new ones like this instead? Visually, I think you'll find that it's much better to have the weapon inside the parentheses. I especially noticed the potential for scanning distraction when incorporating one that had a magic weapon like "+1 longsword +8 melee (1d8+4/19-20)". You don't see this much in the MM, which is perhaps why it works there OK.


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msherman
Faen
(8/12/03 5:23 am)
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Re: Layout request: Insane wisdom
Ok, I've updated my templates to put the weapon inside the brackets, and remove the lime around the Full Atk line. Like you said, I'm not going to edit the ones I've already done (though I will continue to edit them for any factual, rather than formatting, errors, so people can reference the boards until the PDF is complete).

As for insane wisdom, Wis 17 (15*) would be good, with another * before the Insanity description to tie them together. Just the * wouldn't be as helpful; the general rule for statblocks seems to be to calculate out as much as possible, not leave things for the DM to calculate.

When I write my own statblocks when prepping for a session, I don't even bother with the 17 -- I just put 15 straight in, and treat Instanity as a permanent penalty to wisdom along with a double bonus only for spellcasting. The math works out the same, but the notation is simpler to understand in play that way, I think.

Aluvial
Faen
(8/12/03 6:43 am)
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Warning on Jump Skill!
You guys may want to investigate this for your conversions...

I checked some and it looks to be true.

The thread was on EnWorld here.

Aluvial

Andorax
Verrik
(8/12/03 8:39 am)
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Insanity Wisdom
Ok, let's call this official, then (if there's no objections)

Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 15 (13*), Cha 14.

* Adjusted to take Insanity into account.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Admiral Xzar
Faen
(8/13/03 12:07 pm)
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Map E finished...
ok, Map E finished, i am going to work on the destrachan map now...

Xzar

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(8/14/03 9:20 pm)
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Note on +2 to turn/rebuke undead
Personally, I would rather do without the +2 to turn/rebuke undead that everyone seems to be adding to the stat blocks.

1) I don't think it is an official part of the 3.5e stat block.

2) There are so many clerics in this adventure that this change alone may add a page or two of length to the eventual document.

3) Adding extraneous info to stat blocks makes it harder to find what you are looking for

4) While it is new to us now, 3.5e DMs should master this concept fairly quickly because chances are 80% of clerics level 2 or over will have 5 ranks in Knowledge: Religion.

If anything it should be added to SQ

Andorax
Verrik
(8/15/03 6:52 am)
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Re: Note on +2 to turn/rebuke undead
Personally, I think it's probably a good idea to keep it. It strikes me as something that will be oft-forgotten by those who don't play clerics constantly, and I really don't think it'll add quite so much text as you may think.

Still, I'm not dead set on this, and if there's a general consensus to do away with them, I'll gladly edit accordingly.


By the way, stick a fork in Part 3...it's DONE.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

smetzger
Faen
(8/15/03 8:29 am)
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Re: Note on +2 to turn/rebuke undead
I vote to keep
Quote:
+2 to turn/rebuke undead
in the statblock

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(8/15/03 10:48 pm)
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Re: Note on +2 to turn/rebuke undead
Re: the attack line I agree that we should color only the parts that have changed. I was saying the same thing back in the old thread but no one seemed to agree with me at the time. :\

Edited by: Cordo Crowfoot at: 8/15/03 10:49 pm
Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(8/16/03 6:01 am)
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Suggestion on Cleric will saves
I have a suggestion regarding Cleric's will saves. Since insanity was never worked into them in the original printing I understand we are marking them down in the conversion document. But I think it would be a very helpful reminder to put a caveat beside the save of the higher value, which can be used once per day... i.e. "Will +7 (+13 once/day)"

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/16/03 7:32 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: Suggestion on Cleric will saves
Do you mean the Madness domain granted ability of adding your Insanity score to the will save? If we add any text to that, it should be in the area where it mentions the domain. Remember that not all clerics in the module have that domain. And, to be consistent, we would need to provide the powers granted by all domains.

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/16/03 8:06 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
General
For Section 2, I've changed the coloring style somewhat to keep the text on one line. lime = assigned, orange = started, fuchsia = done. Hopefully, it's easy to follow.

Andorax, great job on Section 3. You busted ass on that and deserve a beer (or drink of choice). :)

I've typed Admiral Xzar's name so much, I think I'm getting a personality disorder. ;)

Admiral Xzar
Faen
(8/16/03 8:52 am)
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Re: General
Quote:
I've typed Admiral Xzar's name so much, I think I'm getting a personality disorder.


I´m sorry about that, but hey... ;)

finished with cordo`s help map F...

i will check my other Maps now and try to find everything which has to be fixed. i hope i´m finished with that soon:rolleyes (hmmm, if i think about the whole faults which you found until today, i am going to dig into something HUGE:D )

Xzar

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/16/03 9:29 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: General
"finished with cordo`s help map F..."

Okay, let me know where you want to go next (when you finish the checking of the previous stuff). I suggest jumping on the Main Gate since Gyradon seems to have disappeared, and that's an important spot for DM's to have sooner than later. I've started the thread for this and did the howler.

PS Keep in mind that other will likely do some errata checking. Siobharek, for one, plans to do some of that, so don't be overly considered about errata at the moment.

msherman
Faen
(8/16/03 12:26 pm)
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Re: General
I2K, yes, it's easy to follow, but why did you mark the water temple in orange? I've finished it. Unless someone's posted more errors in that thread that I have to update... I'm still getting caught up post-power-failure.

I'm a little burned out on conversions right now after all those freaking @#%@*& kuo-toa, but if no-one claims it by the time I'm next up to the task (maybe next weekend?), I'll do map I (the bugbears). That should be an easy one.

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/16/03 12:50 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: General
My apologies, I missed it. I understand completely about those kuo-toa, a huge pita. I wonder if Monte did all the NPCs himself or paid some poor shlub to do them? :)

ZansForCans 
Litorian
(8/17/03 12:23 pm)
Reply
Skill Calculator
There's an updated version of the skill calculator available here:

zans.clanplaid.net/v35/skillcalc3035.zip

Synergy bonuses weren't working properly with cross-class ranks. They should work fine now.

As for the Tumble/Jump circular reference, I don't have a good solution for this yet. The short-term solution is to turn on 'Iterations' in the Excel Prefs. Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be a per-template/workbook option that I can save in the calculator, so you have to do it on your own installation.

Even then, I can see where there might be a very specific case in the reverse calculations that is 'degenerate', as we say in mathematical circles (basically, does not have a unique solution). In such a case you need to manually enter what you think is the right synergy bonus in either Tumble or Jump. The rest should fall out.


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