Gold Community Okay -- Your Turn
    > Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil
        > The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
New Topic    Add Reply

Page 1 2 3 4

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Author Comment
madfox
Verrik
(7/16/03 10:42 am)
Reply
The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
Note to self - have been foolish to vollunteer for Inner Fane, now I have to convert the prestige class as well as the half-elemental ;)

Second note to self - when editing your post, do NOT forget to switch Emoticons off...

Quote:
Page 127.
The Door: Large construct; CR 12; HD 16d10+30; hp 120; Init +4 (Int, Improved Initiative); Spd 0 ft.; AC 2 (-1 Size, -5 Dex, -2 object), touch 2, flat-footed 2; Base Atk +12; Grp -; Atk -; Full Atk -; SA Spell-like abilities; SQ Telepathic Speech (range 100'), Construct traits, Electricity and Fire deal half damage, Cold deals a quarter damage, SR 30, hardness 20, break DC 50; AL N; SV Fort +5, Ref -, Will +7; Str --, Dex --, Con --, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 17.

Skills and Feats: Concentration +5, knowledge (relgion) +5, Listen +12, Sense Motive +10, Spellcraft +5, Spot +12; Empower Spell-Like Ability (lightning bolt), Alertness, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Initiative.

Construct Traits: Low-light vision; Darkvision 60 ft.; Immunity to all mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects and necromancy effects; not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain; Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless); Not at risk from massive damage; Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breath.

Spell-like abilities: 3/day - Detect Evil, Detect Good, Detect Thoughts (DC 15), Dismissal (DC 18) , Fear (DC 17), Feeblemind (DC 18) , Lightning Bolt (DC 18 - empowered), Summon Monster V, Wall of Fire. Caster level 10. The save DC is charisma based.

Always at the Inner Fane at the feet of the Black Spike.

The above is a modification for 3.5 based on The Door provided in the erata. Some of its abilities will differ significantly from what is provided in the adventure itself. Since the properties of adementine have not changed, the information given in the adventure works perfectly well in 3.5.

If you really want to treat the door as a construct, which then should resemble The Door in the scenario as closely as possible and still remains as true as possible to D&D, the stats provided above is one way of doing it. I took the liberty of changing some of the errors/assumptions made in the errata to make it fit better with the standards of 3.5 as far as constructs and objects are concerned. I am open for suggestions, especially as far as HD, feats and skills are concerned.
- To get 120 hp an construct needs 16 HD to keep it within standard construct design. A stone golem has a CR of 11 with less HD, but with better physical attacks. If anything, I think the CR of 12 might be on the high side.
- The door cannot move, so it is much better to assume it has a dexterity of - and not of 0.
- I took the liberty as treating it fully as an object as far as immunities for energy attacks are concerned.
- Usually the caster level of spell-like abilities is equal to the HD of the creature, there are a few notable exceptions (e.g. the lillend, the annis, the leonal and the avoral) so this change is not that strange.
- A construct gains 2 skill points per HD, hence the increase in skills.
- In 3.5 Constructs do gain feats when they have an intelligence score just as most other creatures.
- It is a shame that there is no Spell-Like Ability Focus in 3.5.



[Edit Note - I made it clearer that these stats are not directly from the adventure, but are based on a version of the door as provided in the Errata.]

Edited by: madfox at: 7/16/03 12:41 pm
madfox
Verrik
(7/18/03 9:14 am)
Reply
Re: Dark Wights
The dark wights are hardly changed. Though there are some things one might consider when using them as has been noted below.

Quote:
Page 127.
Dark Wights: Advanced wights; CR 4; Medium undead; HD 8d12; hp 52 (see scenario for effective hit points); Init +1 (Dex); Spd 30ft.; AC 20, touch 11, flat-footed 19; Base Atk +4; Grp +5; Atk +6 melee (1d4+1, slam); Full Atk +6 melee (1d4+1, slam); SA Create Spawn, energy drain; SQ Darkvision 60 ft., undead traits; AL LE; SV Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +7; Str 12, Dex 12, Con -, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 15.

Skills and Feats: Skill Hide +8, Listen +11, Move Silently +16, Spot +11 (due to advancement the wight gained 20 skill points, placed 4 in each skill and then added armour check penalties); Alertness, Blind-Fight, Weapon Focus (slam).

Energy Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a wight's slam attack gain one negative level. The DC is 14 for the fortitude sace to resist the negative level.

Possessions: Breast Plate, black tattered clothing.

The Blasted Yard

The Dread Wights as given in the scenario are properly advanced for 3.0.
- In 3.5 only will saves are undead's good saves.
- Unhallow has not changed in 3.5. Aid though has changed slightly. According to the scenario the wights gain +4 hit points because of it. IF you are going to allow aid aiding undead (undead are immune to mind-affecting spells) you might want to increase the bonus 4 hit points to 9 (assuming a 10th level caster placed the unhallow. Since undead are immune to aid, I also did not calculate the +1 morale bonus to attack (though that was missing in the scenario as well).
- The scenario description includes a +2 to Dex, I have not included it, because it is not part of normal advancement rules.
- The effects of the protection from good have not been taken into account, since not all PCs have to be good aligned.


Edited by: madfox at: 7/19/03 4:46 am
Infiniti2000
Verrik
(7/18/03 1:07 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: Dark Wights
madfox, I just wanted to give you some feedback so you don't get discouraged. This looks great! Once I get the books myself, I can offer more constructive comments.

ZansForCans 
Faen
(7/18/03 8:08 pm)
Reply
Re: Dark Wights
Same here. I'm reading them too, but am preparing for a long session on Sunday. I hope to participate more after this weekend. I got my books today, but refuse to crack them until I'm ready for the session: first incursion into the CRM! :)


Group Editing & Authoring Support
flexible campaign management for the web
info :: demo

msherman
Faen
(7/18/03 8:26 pm)
Reply
Re: Dark Wights
No books yet, but I can correct one simple typo; the Unhallow causes Protection From Good, not Evil.

madfox
Verrik
(7/19/03 5:49 am)
Reply
Re: Dark Wights
A piece of advice for those who convert monsters with templates. First remake the monster from scratch and then compare it with the stats in the adventure. That way there is much less chance for errors. I hope I have changed everything that needed to be changed, but I might have missed some things.

Quote:
Page 129.
Half-Dragon Tyrannosauruses: One Blue and one black; CR 10; Huge dragon; HD 18d10+108+1d8+10; hp 194 (black) or 199 (blue); Init +5 (Dex); Spd 40 ft.; AC 22, touch 9, flat-footed 21; Space/Reach 15/10; Base Atk +13; Grp +34; Atk +25 melee (3d6+13, bite); Full +25 melee (3d6+13, bite) and +20/+20 melee (1d8+6, claw); SA Breath weapon, improved grab, swallow whole; SQ Darkvision 60 ft., immune to acid (black) or lightning (blue), immune to sleep and paralysis, low-light vision, scent; AL CE; SV Fort +17, Ref +12, Will +8; Str 36, Dex 12, Con 23, Int 4, Wis 15, Cha 12.

Skills and Feats: Hide -2, Listen +14, Spot +14; Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (bite), Run, Cleave, Powerattack, Improved Initiative. * 42 skill points left for the enterprizing DM to divide.

Breath Weapon (Ex): 1/d (black) - 60 ft. stream of acid, 6d8 points of acid damage, Ref save DC 26 half; or 1/d (blue) - 60 ft. bolt of lightning, 6d8 points of electricity damage, Ref save DC 26 half.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the half-dragon tyrannosaurus must hit a Medium-size or smaller opponent with its bite attack. If it gets a hold, it can try to swallow the foe.

Swallow Wholw (Ex): A half-dragon tyrannosaurus can try to swallow a Medium-size or smaller opponent by making a successful grapple check. The swallowed creature takes 2d8+8 points of crushing damage per round plus 8 points of acid damage from the half-dragon tyrannosaurus's gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using claws or a Small or Tiny slashing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 12). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must again cut its own way out. The gizzard can hold two Medium-size, four Small, eight Tiny, sixteen Dimunitive, or thirty-two Fine or smaller opponents.

The Black Spike, level 1: guardians

- The hit dice type has been decreased to 1d10, because a dinosaur is an animal in 3.5.
- Half-dragons have no sub-types in 3.5
- Added Flight speed all half-dragons have in 3.5.
- Both claw and bite damage differ from the original form in the scenario due to changes in 3.5 to the tyrannosaurus.
- Constitution modifier has changed due to different constitution tyrannosaurus.
- Skills and feats of the standard tyranosaurus are different from the one given in the adventure. I replaced the toughness feats (which are not racial) with the other feats in the scenario. There were still 2 extra feats left (in 3.5 a creature gains a feat per 3 HD), so I added standard feats.
- Breath weapon damage is the same for each type of half-dragon in 3.5, DC is dependend on HD and Con modifier in 3.5. The increase to the DC is immense!


To be honest, I never expacted that this conversion would take me the better part of an hour. After all, it is a simple conversion of existing monsters. The fact is that both the tyrannosaurus and the half-dragons have been changed quite a lot. The CR remained the same though. Well, at least the breath weapon will now make an impression on the PCs.
- I have kept the hp the same, the average result of the new hit dice though is 221 hp. Should we use that number? Mind you, even the original version has too few hit points.
- Half Dragons gain loads of skill points compared to 3.0, I have made no discision on how to divide these. Suggestions?
- Protection from Good has not been included.
- The effects of aid have been included in hp and attack roll, remember in 3.5 aid gives more temporary hit points.



[Edit note - :p at Andorax, the effects of the iron plates on the wings have been added.]

Edited by: madfox at: 7/21/03 9:28 am
Andorax
Verrik
(7/19/03 6:54 pm)
Reply
Re: Dark Wights
It's a highly technical point, but the wording for Improved Grab and Swallow Whole shouldn't be "the tyrannosaurus", but "the half-dragon tyrannosaurus".

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Taxman66
Giant
(7/21/03 4:47 am)
Reply
1/2 Dragon T-Rexs
In the module the dinos can't fly because their wings have been coated/covered in iron (plates?)... They were given a better AC because of it though.

Taxman
"It takes an uncommon mind to think of these things, Hobbes." - Calvin

madfox
Verrik
(7/21/03 5:53 am)
Reply
Re: 1/2 Dragon T-Rexs
Thanks, I must have missed that while reading through that part of the adventure. I will make the modifications this afternoon when I have the books at hand. Personally, I think it would be best to treat the additional armour as barding, but in the interest of keep true to the adventure, I have kept it the same.

Edited by: madfox at: 7/21/03 9:29 am
madfox
Verrik
(7/21/03 10:21 am)
Reply
Re: 1/2 Dragon T-Rexs
Quote:
Page 129.
Tychon: Human Clr9/Doomdreamer 2; CR 11; Medium-size humanoid (human); HD 11d8+11; hp 62 Atk +15 melee (1d8+6, heavy mace +4); Full Atk +15/+10 melee (1d8+6, heavy mace +4); SA Dark lore 1/day, rebuke undead 4/day; SQ Doomdreamer secret, insanity (7), SR 13; AL CE; SV Fort +7, Ref +2, Will +9; Str 14, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 13.

Skills and Feats: Concentration +15, Knowledge (Arcana) +4, Knowledge (religion) +15, Spellcraft +15; Craft Magic Armor and Weapons, Empower Spell, Power Attack, Spell Focus (necromancy), Weapon Focus (heavy mace).

Dark Lore (Su): 1/day speak a creature's secret. Target must make a Will save (DC 17) or be stunned for 1d3 rounds.

Doomdreamer Secret: Deeper madness (+2 to Insanity).

Insanity Score (Ex): Insanity score 7. Wis 25 for bonus spells and DCs; Wis 11 for all other Wis-based characters.

Basic Spells Prepared (6/8/7/7/5/4/3; save DC 17 + spell level): 0-cure minor wounds (2), detect magic, read magic, resistance, virtue; 1st- bless, cure light wounds (2), divine favor, doom, protection from good*, shield of faith (2); 2nd- bull's strength, bear's endurance , hold person, magic missile*, silence, spiritual weapon; 3rd- animate dead**, blast of force*, contagion**, dispel magic, protection from elements (2), summon monster III; 4th- death ward, divine power, freedom of movement, Otiluke's resilient sphere*, poison**; 5th- dispel good*, greater command, spell resistance, summon monster V; 6th- blade barier, heal, repulsion*.
*Domain spell. Domains: Domain Evil (cast evil spells at 12th level); Domain Force (1/day reroll any damage roll for a weapon, a spell or an ability)
** Because of Spell Focus (Necromancy), the base DC for saves against these spells is 18 + spell level. Do not forget that the various inflict spells are necromantic spells as well.

Possessions: +4 heavy mace, +2 full plate armor of spell resistance (13), +2 heavy steel shield, black thurible (and 3 balls
of incense of dreaming, potion of haste, 30 gp, holy symbol (obex), robes.

The Black Spike, level 2

- Once again, in 3.5 aid gives more temporary hit points then in 3.0. So I added 6 hp to the total. The +1 morale bonus to the attack roll has been included.
- The DC of Dark Lore was already wrong in the scenario.
- Unlike in the adventure is described, he has no bull's strength or endurance continually running. These spells also cannot be empowered in 3.5. Bull's strength also does NOT stack with divine power, so he will not cast bull's strength on himself.
- I added Freedom of Movement and Death Ward because these spells have become great defenses for a cleric. It will become impossible to grapple with him and spells like enervation will have no effect. He lacks healing now though.
- The various inflict spells always have been necromantic spells, but the remark is not in the original version of Tychon. I also added ** to contagion, which might be something that needs to be added to the errata as well ;-)


Of all the classes in the PHB the cleric probably requires the least work to convert. Tychon does not even has spells prepared that do not exist anymore. His spell list though is far from optimal. Though the animate dead can be frustrating to the PCs if he manages to animate the half-dragon tyrannosauruses. Personally, I would modify the spells prepared even more, since now he lacks healing and he has a strange mix of offensive and defensive spells (and lacks the hit points to bring his offensive to the full). Making him more as the buffing and healing cleric of the tyranosauruses makes more sense. Not to mention that this list of prepared spells does not make full use of all the new spells in 3.5 (such as mass healings, mass inflicts, the fact that blade barrier is more defensive now and mass bulls strength/endurance and the like).



[Note - I really should strife to make more readable texts before posting the thing.]

Edited by: madfox at: 7/21/03 12:04 pm
Andorax
Verrik
(7/21/03 11:48 am)
Reply
Re: 1/2 Dragon T-Rexs
Tychon:

Quote:

Do not forget that the various inflict spells are necromantic spells as well.



A good addition...but it is an addition, and thus should be in lime.


Also, "bear's endurance" is a change of name.



Your two spell choices seem solid ones...assuming there are no good "other-buffing" 4th level spells we could toss in there. It would be nice if he had something he could slap on the Tyros to improve them instead of himself (since that was his original tactic). Still, it seems a solid conversion to me.


Sick thought. What would happen if he whistled towards one of the Tyros, it turned it's head, and he tossed the potion of haste, which it then chomped down on midair?

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

madfox
Verrik
(7/21/03 12:01 pm)
Reply
Re: 1/2 Dragon T-Rexs
Actually, the inflict spells where necromany in 3.0 as well, so strictly by the book it is not a new addition. It is just something I added, because it would be typically something I would forget when running Tychon.

As for the buffing spells, he could prepare spell immunity instead, but it is not the kind of spell that you prepare unless you have an inkling of what you will be facing. Besides, if you replace blade barrier with mass bull's strength you get the same result with one casting. Remember, blade barrier is purely defensive in 3.5 and repulsion will have a similar defensive aspect as blade barrier. As I said, I am not too happy about Tychon's spell list and I would prefer to change more then what I did.

Daeinar
Faen
(7/21/03 12:18 pm)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
But if he casts Blade Barrier to separate the party... while they are fighting the Tyros, things could become really funny.;)

madfox
Verrik
(7/21/03 12:24 pm)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
To me or to the PCs? ;) If I manage to pull that one off with a blade barrier, either the players will kill me or they will kill themselves. I once nearly killed the whole party in the Caves of Ancient Secrets by a strategically placed wall of stone because the PCs were so stupid as to split off. You are right though, even as a defensive spell it is great. For now I have kept the list as close as possible.

SR 13... talk about a useless SR...

Andorax
Verrik
(7/21/03 12:44 pm)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
If you recall, I didn't suggest adding buff-spells of other levels, just seeing if there were any good 4th level ones (which it seems there aren't...oh well). NBD.

As for the notation I mentioned...yes, it was that way in 3.0, but it is a change in the statblock and therefore should appear in lime. The color shift is meant to point out what's different from the original RttToEE printing, not just what's different in 3.0 -> 3.5.


Thank goodness there's only one printing of RttToEE out there.


Hmm....cast Repulsion (20' distance). Party comes up stairs, hits field, stops. Cast Blade Barrier behind them. Goodbye mobility. Continue with other offensive spells while they're "stuck in the middle". Loss of mobility kills. Now let's see...what was that other spell on his list? Greater Command (Flee)? :evil

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Daeinar
Faen
(7/21/03 1:33 pm)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
Uhhh... now that one is EVIL.

madfox
Verrik
(7/22/03 1:14 am)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
Flee is evil? Somehow the command to lay down while a half-dragon T-rex is chewing on you is a lot nastier ;)

Andorax
Verrik
(7/22/03 6:28 am)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
In and of itself, flee isn't all that evil...but when you're commanding them to flee, and the only way away from you is through the blade barrier...and quite possably back down into the hall where the T-Rexes may still be alive and chewing (and taking AoOs against fleeing PCs).

Anyways, we're wandering off the topic here. Please do continue your fine work, madfox.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

madfox
Verrik
(7/22/03 9:51 am)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
Quote:
Page 129.
Greater Glyph of Ward[/b] Trap; CR 6; 5-ft. burst of fire energy (5d8 points of fire damage); Reflex save DC 23 half; Search (DC 31); Disable Device (DC 31).

The Black Spike, level 2

- The DC of the reflex save already one off when we assume that Tychon placed the spell himself.

- This trap is placed at CR, but the glyph example in the DMG of this CR deals more damage. Considering the much higher save DC though, I think it fits reasonably.


Quote:
Page 130
The Dreaming Stone:
Concentration check (DC 15) to let the stone become any none-magical item with a weight of around 3-pounds. It retains it's shape for 24 hours.

This item is incredibly powerful in 3.5 since the examples given in the scenario talk about adementine locks. Any PC would love to get their hands on an object that can form itself into a silver, adementine or cold iron weapon by concentrating on it. My advice would to rule away the ability of the stone to change into any special material as well. Remember that in 3.0 this hardly mattered, so that by keeping it as is, it is more powerful now.

madfox
Verrik
(7/22/03 10:06 am)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
Quote:
Page 130
Vrock:

Black Spike, level 3

Do NOT forget to add the +10 hit points and the +1 morale bonus to attack rolls the vrock gains due to the aid spell. If the PCs are good aligned, one should also not forget the benefits of the protection from good.

The Vrock in 3.5 differs slightly from the vrock in 3.0. In any event, its CR is now 9, meaning that this officially has become an easier encounter. In reality, considering the differences between the two versions, I think it has become more difficult. If you really want an EL 13 encounter, you could advance it by adding 8 cleric levels (none associated class, hence only 1/2 CR) or 4 levels of fighters (assuming the vrock is a fighter type monster). Advancing it by 6 HD increases the CR to 13 (+3 for HD, +1 for size increase). Finally, you could also decide to 4 vrocks instead. That though would make little sense considering the description of the area in the adventure.


Quote:
Page 130
Night Hags: hp 70, 88

Black Spike, level 4

Do NOT forget to add +1 morale bonus to attack rolls that the night hags gains due to the aid spell. The hit point benefit has been included in the numbers above. If the PCs are good aligned, one should also not forget the benefits of the protection from good.

Unlike the Vrock, the night hag CR remained the same. They did increase their constitution though, so they have higher hit points then given in the scenario.

Edited by: madfox at: 7/22/03 10:17 am
madfox
Verrik
(7/25/03 12:53 am)
Reply
Bumb and warning
Sorry for the bumb of this threat, but I wanted to warn you all that I just received a new computer. I doubt I will be able to do much in the conversion process this weekend, and I am not even sure I have internet access...

Page 1 2 3 4 << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

Add Reply

Email This To a Friend Email This To a Friend
Topic Control Image Topic Commands
Click to receive email notification of replies Click to receive email notification of replies
Click to stop receiving email notification of replies Click to stop receiving email notification of replies
jump to:

- Okay -- Your Turn - Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil - Home -

Powered By ezboard® Ver. 7.32
Copyright ©1999-2005 ezboard, Inc.