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Andorax
Verrik
(7/28/03 6:19 am)
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Re: Bumb and warning
Well, when you get back, I have some good news for you.

You're off the hook for converting the "Half-Elemental" templates. The conversion guide covers them, in the section on the Manual of the Planes.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

madfox
Verrik
(7/28/03 6:26 am)
Reply
Re: Bumb and warning
Thanks for pointing it out...

Why do elemental creatures gain DR #/magic while elementals gain DR #/- though? Mind you, it does not matter for this scenario, but I love using elemental creatures in it.

madfox
Verrik
(8/2/03 4:07 am)
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Re: The First - One deadly guy
Note - DOUBLE check the schools of all spells when it is important. Several spells became necromancy that were not so before the conversion - e.g. bestow curse.

Quote:
180.
The First: Male Human Clr/Doomdreamer 10/5; Medium-size humanoid (human); HD 15d8+48; hp 128 (+14 due to aid = 142 total); Init +5; Spd 20 ft.; AC 29, touch 13, flat-footed 28; Base Atk +10; Grp +13; Atk +15 (9, greater tentacle rod) or +13 melee (touch attack, depends on the spell); Full Atk +15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15 (9, greater tentacle rod) or +13/+8 melee (touch attack, depends on the spell); SA Chill soul, dark lore, maddening howl, rebuke undead 5/day; SQ Dark communion ritual, doom dreamer secrets, insanity; AL CE; SV Fort +13, Ref +9, Will +17; Str 16, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 21, Cha 15.

Skills and Feats: Concentration +21, Heal +20, Knowledge (arcana) +21, Knowledge (religion) +21, Listen +11, Spellcraft +23; Dodge, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Maximize Spell, Mobility, Spell Focus (Necromancy).

Chill Soul (Su): Can touch a living creature and inflict 3d8 points of damage. This can be used in conjunction with an inflict wounds spell, but is negated if the victim is wearing the purple robes of Tharizdun.

Dark Lore (Su): 1/day speak a creature's secret. Target must make a Will save (DC 20) or be stunned for 1d3 rounds.

Maddening Howl (Sp): 1/day, as a standard action, give a howl that effects all living creatures within 50 ft. Those in the area must make Will saves (DC 20). Failure means that the victim stands still (treat as dazed) for 1 round.

Dark Communion Ritual (Sp): 1/week can perform a ritual (that takes a full night and must be performed in a temple with a human sacrifice) that allows him to gain knowledge (see Appendix 2).

Doomdreamer Secrets: Unnatural vitality (+3 hp), curse of power (treat as 16th level when casting evil spells), paying fealthy to death (+1 to DC of death effects).

Insanity (Ex): Insanity Score 7. Wis 28 for bonus spells and DCs; Wis 14 for all other Wis-based checks.

Spells Prepared (6/9/8/8/7/7/5/4/3; save DC 19 +spell level): 0-cure minor wounds, detect magic, light, mending, resistance (2); 1st-bane, command, comprehand languages, cure light wounds, entropic
shield, obscuring mist, protection from good~,lesser confusion*, shield of faith
; 2nd-bull's strength, darkness, death knell@~, hold person (2), silence, spiritual weapon, Tharizdun's Touch*; 3rd-bestow curse#, cure serious wounds (2), dispel magic,invisibility purge, magic vestment, protection from energy, rage*; 4th-confusion*,death ward#, discern lies, dismissal, neautralize poison, restoration, spell immunity; 5th-dispel good~, flame strike, mass inflict light wounds*#, maximized cure moderate wounds, slay living@, spell resistance, true seeing; 6th-blade barrier, etherealness, greater dispelling, heal, phantasmal killer; 7th-blasphemy~, destruction@ (2), disintegrate*; 8th-maximized flame strike, Tharizdun's maddening scream*, unholy aura~;
*Domain spell. Deity: Tharizdun. Domains: Destruction (1/day smite, +4 attack, +1 15 damage); Madness (1/day add insanity score to Wis-based roll).
# Because of Spell Focus (Necromancy), the base DC against these spells is 20 + spell level. Note that the various inflict wounds spells are also necromancy spells.
@ Because of the paying fealty to death ability, the base DC against these spells is 21 + spell level.
~ Evil spell, cast at 16th level due to Doomdreamer Secret.

Possessions: Greater tentacle rod (see Appendix 1), +2 full plate, +2 heavy steel shield, amulet of natural armor +2, helmet of protection +2 (as ring), cloak of resistance +2,strand of prayer bead (karma only), torch of revealing (and 6 cones of incense of dreaming; see Appendix 1), black thurible (and 4 balls of incense of dreaming; see Appendix 1)[/i], potion of haste[/i], 200 gp ring, silver holy symbol (obex).

The Innerfane, the Black Spike, level 8, room 3

- The +3 hit points of the unnatural vitality where not taken into account.
- Once again, aid now gives more temporary hit points hence the increase.
- Knowledge arcana gives a synergy bonus on spellcraft.
- Bestow Curse now a days is a necromancy spell
- Phantasmal killer is neither a necromancy nor a death effect.
- Bear's endurance cannot be maximized anymore, so I selected a defensive spell as a replacement. Though perhaps you prefer a spell like plane shift, your players will hate you for it.
- Strangely enough spell focus of the First already gave a +1 to DC. Perhaps Monte is a bit psychic?
- I have no clue how much worth this item is, I would say 20000 gp which is 5x as expensive as the original item, but by the DMG is actually free :-p


- The chill soul ability does not describe the type of damage dealt, though it is suggested that it is negative energy. In 3.0 this was not very important, but death ward protects against ALL negative energy attacks in 3.5. So does Death Ward protect against Chill Soul?

Andorax
Verrik
(9/4/03 2:03 pm)
Reply
Re: The First - One deadly guy
Well...it looks like Madfox has already done a *lot* of the work here after all. I'll try and take it from here and get the Inner Fane wrapped up, and will *try* to do as good a job as Madfox has done.

Completed already:

1: The Door
The Half-Dragon Tyrannosauruses
2: Tychon
3: The Vrock
4-5: The Night Hags
8: The First


Remains:

6: The Skeleton
8: The First's Quarters
The Third
The Third's Quarters
9: Tabernacle of Utter Darkness
S1: Cathedral of Pain
S2: Tourbillion
S3: Dire Library
S4: Reliquary of Evil
S5: Quasit Lair

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Edited by: Andorax at: 9/4/03 2:13 pm
Andorax
Verrik
(9/4/03 2:39 pm)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
Quote:

Page 131
Medium-Size Human Warrior Skeleton: hp 22 (+10 from aid from the unhallow already included); +10 turn resistance; Int 8, see Monster Manual page ??.

Includes the hit point boost from the changes to Aid, as well as the notation that skeletons are now a template, not just a size...so it uses the default Human Warrior skeleton.



Quote:

Page 132
1. Outer Chamber (EL 9)
Symbol of Insanity: CR 9; 60-ft radius affects all within the area and remains active for 190 minutes after being set off;...

Assuming The First set the Symbol, and that he made use of his Bead of Karma, the duration is as per a 19th level caster). The CR is also up by 1 by the new standards.

3. Quarters of the First (EL 16)

The First Male human Clr10/Doomdreamer 5; hp 138 (+10 from aid from unhallow...

Remove the sentance beginning with:
"Then, he drinks his potion of haste with the plan..."


"Ahead of time, he casts bull's endurance, giving him..."

"If he casts all the above spells, his AC becomes 34: he gains an additional +3 deflection bonus (from shield of faith, which gives a +5, but does not stack with his existing +2 bonus) and an additional +2 enhancement bonus to his AC (from magic vestment).



"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Edited by: Andorax at: 9/5/03 7:48 am
Andorax
Verrik
(9/5/03 8:03 am)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
Quote:

Page 133
4. Quarters of the Third (EL 15)

The Third Female Half-Air Elemental Clr8/Doomdreamer 5; hp 143 (+10 from aid from unhallow...

"...with her forbiddance spell helping her. She frequently will take the time to cast bull's strength and bear's endurance, given the opportunity, along with divine power, magic vestment..."




Quote:

Page 135
Sublevel 1: The Cathedral of Pain (EL 13)

Jear: hp 5 (currently 1); AL N; see Monster Manual page ??.




Quote:

Page 136
Sublevel 2: The Tourbillion (EL 11)

Stone Golem: hp 130; see Monster Manual page ??.


Sublevel 5: Quasit Lair (EL 8)

Quasits: hp 23, 22, 20, 24 (+10 from aid from unhallow already figured in); see Monster Manual page ??.


"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Edited by: Andorax at: 9/5/03 8:05 am
Andorax
Verrik
(9/5/03 9:13 am)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
Appendix III entries for the Inner Fane (not already covered):


Quote:

The Third: Female half-air elemental/half-human Clr8/Doomdreamer5; CR 15; Medium-size outsider; HD 8d8+32 plus 5d8+23; hp 133; Init +4, Spd 30 ft.; AC 23 (touch 16, flat-footed 19); BAB +9; Grapple +11; Atk +13 melee (1d10+4/19-20 [+1d10 cold on crit], +1 icy burst heavy flail); FAtk +13/+8 (as above); SA Chill soul, dark lore, maddening howl, rebuke undead 6/day; SQ Dark communion ritual, doomdreamer secrets, half-elemental abilities, insanity; AL CE; SV Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +12; Str 14, Dex 19, Con 18, Int 16, Wis 19 (11*), Cha 17.

* Adjusted to take Insanity into account.

Skills and Feats: Concentration +20, Diplomacy +5, Intimidate +15, Knowledge (Arcana) +18, Knowledge (religion) +19, Search +8, Spellcraft +21; Dodge, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Spell Focus (Necromancy), Weapon Focus (Heavy Flail).

Rebuke Undead: The Third gains a +2 synergy bonus on Rebuke Undead checks because she has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion).

If the Third has a chance to cast bull's strength and bear's endurance upon herself prior to melee, she will do so. With bull's strength and bear's endurance hp 159, Atk +15 melee (1d10+7/19-20 [+1d10 cold on crit], +1 icy burst heavy flail); FAtk +15/+10 (as above); SV Fort +13; Str 18, Con 22. Concentration +22.

Chill Soul (Su): Can touch a living creature and inflict 3d8 points of damage. This can be used in conjunction with an inflict wounds spell, but is negated if the victim is wearing the purple robes of Tharizdun.

Dark Lore (Su): 1/day speak a creature's secret. Target must make a Will save (DC 20) or be stunned for 1d3 rounds.

Maddening Howl (Sp): 1/day, as a standard action, give a howl that affects all living creatures within 50 ft. Those in the area must make Will saves (DC 20). Failure means that the victim stands still (treat as dazed) for 1 round.

Dark Communion Ritual (Sp): 1/week can perform a ritual (this takes a full night and must be performed in a temple with a human sacrifice) that allows her to gain knowledge (See Appendix 2).

Doomdreamer Secrets: Unnatural vitality (+3 hp), deeper madness (+2 to Insanity score), unholy pact (1/week, no payment needed for planar ally).

Half-Elemental Abilities (Sp): 1/day obscuring mist, wind walk, gaseous form, air walk, control winds, chain lightning, control weather. DC = 13 + spell level. Immune to cold an ddisease. +4 racial bonus on saves against poison.

Insanity (Ex): Insanity score 8. Wis 27 for bonus spells and DCs; Wis 11 for all other Wis-based checks.

Spells Prepared (6/8/8/7/7/5/4/3; base DC = 18 + spell level): 0—cure minor wounds, detect magic, guidance, light, resistance (2); 1st—command, cure light wounds, divine favor, entropic shield, mage armor*, protection from good, random action, shield of faith; 2nd—bull’s strength, bear’s endurance, cure moderate wounds, darkness, hold person, magic missile*, silence, spiritual weapon; 3rd—bestow curse, blast of force*, blindness/deafness, cure serious wounds, dispel magic, magic vestment, protection from elements; 4th—discern lies, dismissal, divine power, freedom of movement, neutralize poison, Otiluke's resilient sphere*, tongues; 5th—greater command, slay living~ (2), spell resistance, true seeing, wall of force*; 6th—banishment, harm~, heal, repulsion*; 7th-blasphemy, destruction~, forcecage*.
* Domain spell. Deity: Tharizdun. Domains: Force (1/day reroll any damage roll for a weapon, a spell, or an ability); Madness (1/day add Insanity score to Wis-based roll).
~ Because of Spell Focus (Necromancy), the base DC against these spells is 19 + spell level.

Possessions: +1 icy burst heafy flail, bracers of armor +4, amulet of natural armor +3, ring of protection +2, torch of revealing (and 4 cones of incense of dreaming)(see Appendix 1), black thurible (and 5 balls of incense of dreaming)(see Appendix 1), 400 gp earrings, holy symbol (obex).

The Third is typically found in the Inner Fane, level 8, room 4 (Page 133).

Bonus hps did not match the listed Con score (or the Fort save). While mathematically possible, it is highly unlikely that The Third would have 133 hps with only a 16 Con (the score for which her bonus hps were calculated from)...the 18 Con (which appears in her statblock) is much more likely (and matches up with the listed Fort save), and the bonus hps were adjusted accordingly.




Quote:

Erdso: Male human Mnk8; CR 8 (currently 7 without gear); Medium-size humanoid (human); HD 8d8+8; hp 50; Init +3, Spd 50 ft.; AC 14 (touch 14, flat-footed 10); BAB +6; Grapple +6; Atk +10 melee (1d10, unarmed strike); FAtk +9/+9/+4 (as above); SQ Monk abilities; AL LN; SV Fort +7, Ref +9, Will +4; Str 10, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 6, Cha 10.

Skills and Feats: Balance +5, Climb +11, Listen +11, Move Silently +14, Spot +0, Tumble +14; Alertness, Deflect arrows, Dodge, Improved Trip, Stunning Fist, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike).

Monk Abilities: Flurry of Blows, Evasion, still mind, Ki Strike (Magic), slow fall 40 ft., purity of body, wholeness of body.

Posessions: None (held by Yrthuk Innar).

Erdso is typically found in the Inner Fane, sublevel 1 (Page 135).





Quote:

Festalon Girrot: Male elf Clr7; CR 7 (currently 6 without gear); Medium-size humanoid (elf); HD 7d8; hp 32; Init +1; Spd 30 ft.; AC 11 (touch 11, flat-footed 10); BAB +5; Grapple +7; Atk +7 melee (1d3+2, unarmed strike); FAtk as above; SA Turn undead 5/day; SQ Immune to sleep, low-light vision, +2 bonus on saves against enchantment effects; AL CG; SV Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +8; Str 14, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 17, Cha 15.

Skills and Feats: Concentration +10, Heal +13, Knowledge (religion) +11, Listen +5, Search +3, Spot +5; Craft Wand, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus (morningstar).

Turn Undead: Festalon Girrot gains a +2 synergy bonus on Turn Undead checks because he has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion).

Spells Prepared 6/6/5/4/2; base DC 13 + spell level): None currently.

Deity: Ehlonna. Domains: Good (cast good spells at 8th level); Sun (1/day greater turning).

Posessions: None (held by Yrthuk Innar).

Festalon Girrot is typically found in the Inner Fane, sublevel 1 (Page 135).




Quote:

Yrthuk Innar: Male half-earth elemental/half-human Ftr10; CR 13 (normally 12, +1 for extra gear); Medium-size outsider (earth); HD 10d10+40; hp 101; Init +0; Spd 20 ft.; AC 27 (touch 12, flat-footed 27); BAB +10; Grapple +16; Atk +18 melee (1d10+9/17-20, bastard sword); FAtk +18/+13 (as above); SQ Half-elemental abilities, immune to disease, immune to earth effects, +4 bonus on saves against poison; AL NE; SV Fort +11, Ref +5, Will +6; Str 23, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 8.

Skills and Feats: Craft (torture equipment) +5, Diplomacy +1, Heal +7, Intimidate +7, Sense Motive +7, Spot +7; Cleave, Combat Expertice, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Improved Critical (bastard sword), Improved Disarm, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Weapon Focus (bastard sword), Weapon Specialization (bastard sword).

Half-Elemental Abilities (Sp): 1/day - magic stone, soften earth and stone, stone shape, spike stones, wall of stone (all as Sor 10). DC = 9 + spell level.

Posessions: +1 full plate armor, +1 large steel shield, +1 bastard sword of wounding, ring of protection +2, gauntlets of ogre power, hand of the magi, elixir of truth, potion of cure serious wounds, potion of cure light wounds.

Festalon Girrot is typically found in the Inner Fane, sublevel 1 (Page 135).

For lack of a better idea, the potion of ghoul's touch was just left off.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Edited by: Andorax at: 9/5/03 9:15 am
Andorax
Verrik
(9/5/03 9:16 am)
Reply
Re: The Inner Fane - Conversion to 3.5, a start
I think that's it. Please let me know if you see anything in error or out of place, but other than that, it looks like the Inner Fane is done at this point.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

ZansForCans 
Cherub
(11/25/03 12:01 am)
Reply
Door & Wights
Door:

I'm coming up with one extra skill point spent (39 total vs. 38), but it's in the noise and I might not tweak anything unless someone wants to double-check.

I think it gets one more feat (6 total), but I'm being especially uncreative at this late (early?) hour and bet someone can come up with something better than Skill Focus (Listen).

It's great to have this statted out so nicely. Great job!

Wights:

Their speed should be 20 ft. with the breastplate.

The issue with aid is a pretty clear error (even in 3.0), and I'm planning on modifying the text portion (wight hps, for example) to reflect that. Anyone have a problem with that? I'll try to remember to include a note of what the change would be if a DM does want to include the effect for the undead in the Inner Fane. But officially, I don't think it should affect them based on the mind-affecting (that madfox notes) and the spell's target of 'living' creatures.

I changed the extra '20' skill points to '16' in the notes section. That matches the 4 skills x 4 point increase, so I think this was just a typo...


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ZansForCans 
Cherub
(11/30/03 12:05 am)
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Half-Dragon T-rex
I added in the extra +10 from aid into their hp. We've been doing that for the others (I think), so this should be consistent. Their ACs are lime, but it doesn't look like they changed any.

Their natural weapons switch primary and secondary role in 3.5 due to a change in the half-dragon template. I made a note that you can still use the bite on a (non-full) attack action at the (reduced) +20.

Tweaked Fort to reflect the new Con.

I just mirrored the skill point buy from the original and come up with: (Hide -7), Listen +27, Move Silently +11, Spot +27. That maxes out all three of the skills with points (21 each).

There was one feat missing, so I added Track in from the stock T-rex. Now, really the only thing that's different from the MM T-rex is that the three Toughnesses have been replaced with the adventure's feats (PA, Cleave, and Imp. Init).

Added a few wording changes in the special abilities.

Additional notes:

With the serious decrease in the bite damage for T-rex's in 3.5 and the secondary taken into account (only 1/2 Str), the average bite damage goes down from 35.5 to 16.5. Claws (2) are up to 17.5 from 10.5. I'm not sure how this will balance out, but it's something to be aware of. The acid breath damage is nearly double what it was, and the breath DC is way up for both. But those are only 1/day.

One option is to shift the Imp. NA from bite to claw (which make both weapons 2d6), but it's coming from the T-rex base, which is kind of flavoring. Should I add it as a suggestion?


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Infiniti2000
Cherub
(11/30/03 8:33 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: Half-Dragon T-rex
The T-Rex is the base creature and it's attacks are used as the base attacks, not the templates. Therefore, the bite is the primary attack and its base damage is 3d6. Adding INA makes it 4d6. The template makes claw attacks primary only for creature that have no natural attacks. I think we can all agree that a T-Rex should have bite as the primary attack, no matter what template is applied.

ZansForCans 
Cherub
(11/30/03 9:44 pm)
Reply
Re: Half-Dragon T-rex
I worked on this with only the SRD available, but I have my MM in hand now and don't see where it's clearly stated that you always retain the base natural attacks when applying templates.

The 3.5 half-dragon template clearly states what attacks a half-dragon has and which is primary. Compare to the skeleton or vampire template which explicitly state that the creature retains the base's natural attacks. Yes, the damage can be used from the base if it has either of these attack forms, but by my reading it looses all other natural attacks when applying the half-dragon (and half-fiend) templates.

Also, the T-rex already has INA to get the 3d6 (unfortunately). The 'base' damage for the bite has been reduced to the typical 2d6 for a Huge creature in 3.5.


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Infiniti2000
Cherub
(12/1/03 12:20 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Half-Dragon T-rex
It doesn't clearly state that the base creature natural attacks are retained, but it does clearly state to use them if they are better than the half-dragon. Since the T-Rex is better than a 'standard' huge half-dragon, it gets used. This part should be pretty clear.

To the other point, the only argument I can proffer is that the template is a benefit, not a hindrance, so it should not cause the creature to become weaker, which I believe happens. Also, it seems obvious to me that a T-Rex primarily uses its bite, even a half-dragon T-Rex.

So, the bite should be 4d6 (with the INA) and should be primary.

ZansForCans 
Cherub
(12/1/03 1:39 pm)
Reply
Re: Half-Dragon T-rex
Quote:
... it does clearly state to use them if they are better than the half-dragon. Since the T-Rex is better than a 'standard' huge half-dragon, it gets used.


I only find that kind of comment in the Damage entry for the half-dragon.

Quote:
If the base creature does not have these attack forms, use the damage values in the table below. Otherwise, use the values below or the base creature’s damage values, whichever are greater.


There is no mention of it in the Attack entries. There, it only mentions that if the base creature can use weapons it retains that ability and then usually uses the weapon as a primary attack. But if I'm missing something else, please correct me.

I guess my arm can be twisted to change it back to bite primary, if there is a strong desire to. The half- templates are much larger shifts of a base creature than say fiendish or celestial. I can see where the attack routines might change (heck the type is changing to dragon). I can certainly put something to the effect in the comments either way. Any one else want to chime in some opinion here?

As for the damage, check the T-Rex entry. It already has INA (bite) which moves a standard Huge bite damage of 2d6 up to 3d6. I don't see how we can bump that up any more per the rules...


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msherman
Ophanite
(12/1/03 1:56 pm)
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Re: Half-Dragon T-rex
If you're looking for votes, I vote for keeping Bite as primary, per the T-Rex, because raising the CR while lowering the effectiveness of the monster seems like a wrong thing to do.

ZansForCans 
Cherub
(12/1/03 2:22 pm)
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Tychon
Just some minor bits for everyone's favorite T-Rex sitter:

* I upped his hp to a full 66 (+10) since I think the full effect of aid in 3.5 would be +14 and he already has +4... right?

* +2 synergy bonus for Spellcraft from Knowledge (arcana).

* Made the spell swaps a little more explicit in the notes (CMW is dropped, for example).

* Tweaked the note about inflicts and necro to include "spontaneous" just to make it clear what we're hinting at.


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Infiniti2000
Cherub
(12/1/03 7:34 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Half-Dragon T-rex
"As for the damage, check the T-Rex entry. It already has INA (bite) which moves a standard Huge bite damage of 2d6 up to 3d6. I don't see how we can bump that up any more per the rules... "

I missed that it already had INA, sorry. The rest of my comments (except that bite should be primary) are therefore somewhat moot. :|

ZansForCans 
Cherub
(12/4/03 2:45 pm)
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Re: Half-Dragon T-rex
OK, I reverted the stat block back to bite primary and added this to the notes:

Quote:
Be aware that the bite and claw damage has decreased significantly in v3.5 (the latter looked to be a typo in the v3.0 MM half-dragon template). In addition, half-dragons now have specific primary and secondary attacks specified (claws and bite) with the attack sequence appearing to be fixed. Looser wording was used in v3.0. Although there was some debate among the converting team, consensus was to leave the bite as a primary attack in the block above to avoid changing these dinos' chompy flavor too much. Two of their special abilities depend on the bite as well.

If you prefer the stricter interpretation of the v3.5 template wording, the attack sequence becomes:

Atk +25 melee (1d8+13, claw); Full Atk +25 melee (1d8+13, 2 claws) and +20 melee (3d6+6, bite)

Note that in v3.5, you can still use a secondary attack in a (non-full) attack action but you retain the –5 penalty. With the increased damage and improved grab/swallow ability of the bite, if you prefer this sequence it still might be useful to use the bite as a single (non-full) attack occasionally.


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Infiniti2000
Cherub
(12/4/03 6:29 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Half-Dragon T-rex
Hey, I just noticed an error and realized potentially more convincing "evidence." The T-Rex gets x1 1/2 damage (two-handed weapon) on its bite. It should continue to gain the damage as a half-dragon. So, it's bite will be 3d6+19 due to the increased strength.

Do you agree?

ZansForCans 
Cherub
(12/5/03 7:39 am)
Reply
Re: Half-Dragon T-rex
I'd disagree, actually. ;)

The half-dragon has more natural weapons an thus should not get x1.5 on the primary. Notice that this was true in 3.0 as well. Base T-Rex had +9 Str mod, but bite is +13. Monte set the bite damage for these guys to +13, only x1 their (half-dragon) enhanced Str mod.

3.5 makes it pretty clear:

Quote:
A creature’s primary attack damage includes its full Strength modifier (1-1/2 times its Strength bonus if the attack is with the creature’s sole natural weapon) and is given first. Secondary attacks add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus and are given second in the parentheses.


My personal opinion on the half- templates (compared to other inherited ones like celestial, etc.) is that they do more than just flavor the base creature and likely significant alterations to the physiology of the creature. But I can understand why there would be more reason to switch things around for these guys. I hope the comments reflected that and if not, let me know :)


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