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ZansForCans 
Cherub
(12/7/03 10:32 pm)
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The First
Very minor tweaks for the head-honcho:
* I put the aid bonus (1d8+10) in the HD line like we have a few other places already. I don't know what the best way to denote it is, but this looks the best.
* Added insanity Wis score and associated note.
* The full normal strand price is definitely wrong in the DMG/SRD. It's pretty obvious if you add up the bead prices for the lesser and greater versions. It should be 45,800 gp, and I updated the comment to include that point.
* I left the chill soul damage type question open for the DM.
One final question that I noticed is a bit inconsistent in our blocks is the behavior of a tentacle rod for a (non-full) attack versus a full attack. Should it only attack with one tentacle on a (non-full) attack? A very literal interpretation of Monte's text might lead to having all of them attack during such an action: "The rod's attacks count as a standard action for the wielder." I'd lean toward a single tentacle without any guidance, but it's not something I feel particularly strong about having not used them IMC quite yet.
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msherman
Ophanite
(12/8/03 7:43 am)
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Re: The First
IMO, the Rod should not be treated as a multi-headed weapon, but rather as a magic item that does N attacks (3 or 6) for a Standard action, based on that text. That way it can't be used with things like a charge, or for a single grapple attack as an off-hand weapon in a full round action.
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 Infiniti2000
Cherub
(12/8/03 8:16 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: The First
I agree with msherman. Otherwise, you run into the enigma where someone with a BAB of +5 (e.g.) gets 3 attacks with it. How would that be possible?
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ZansForCans
Cherub
(12/9/03 9:01 pm)
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Re: The First
OK, that's consensus for me  I'll change them all to be the same.
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ZansForCans
Cherub
(12/9/03 9:47 pm)
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The Third
And for the not-so-head-honcho:
* The +1d6 cold (normal, non-crit) damage for her icy burst heavy flail was not included in the original.
* Her skills are fine, despite the previous tweak suggested here. The key was to spend her 8 levels of Cleric points first with a max of 11 (8+3) allowed in each skill at first. You also have to keep careful track of which skills are cross-class for Cleric and DD. It works out to 96 points in the end, what she should have: (13+3) * (2 + 3 [Int] +1 [human]) = 96.
* She is missing one feat--she gets 5 for her levels and 1 for humanity. I gave her Combat Casting for simplicity.
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info :: demoEdited by: ZansForCans at: 12/11/03 9:50 am
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ZansForCans
Cherub
(12/9/03 10:14 pm)
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Erdso
I changed his full attack line to this:
Full Atk +10/+5 melee (1d10, unarmed strike) or +9/+9/+4 (1d10, flurry of blows)
The DC on his stunning fist should be 12, I think: 10 + 8/2 (levels) - 2 (Wis).
Also, the monk AC bonus that v3.5 allows now for him applies to his flat-footed.
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ZansForCans
Cherub
(12/9/03 11:07 pm)
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Re: Yrthuk Innar
Why is the last one always a PitA? 
OK, I think Yrthuk has one too many feats and 9 too many skill points, but these could be linked.
Q: Does a half-elemental/half-human have the bonus human feat and skill point?
I'd say no off the top of my head, but Yrthuk has 48 points spent (4 Craft, 8 Intimidate, and 12 cross-class points for Heal, Sense Motive, and Spot). He should either have (10+3)*3 = 39 or (10+3)*4 = 52. He also has 11 feats (4 for levels, 6 fighter bonus, +?), one too many without the human bonus.
But, as a counter-point, The Third has 5 feats, correct for her level (13th) and skill points spent (87) that were closer (but over) the 80 she would get without the human bonus points (vs. 96 for with the bonus ones).
Thoughts? Double-checks welcome on the skills. I certainly could be missing something...
The only other minor tweak I made was adding a comment about the change to the wounding ability. It causes 1 point of Con damage now instead of the bleeding.
Edit: 52 is the correct number for his skill points. I added 4 points to Intimidate, making it +11.
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info :: demoEdited by: ZansForCans at: 12/11/03 9:57 am
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Infiniti2000
Cherub
(12/10/03 6:29 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Yrthuk Innar
"Q: Does a half-elemental/half-human have the bonus human feat and skill point?"
Yes, but don't ask me to justify my answer off the top of my head. Basically you get the benefits of both halves. This would be a decent question to confirm in the Rules board, however.
"Double-checks welcome on the skills."
You are the Skillz Mazter. No one would dare double check them.
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msherman
Ophanite
(12/10/03 6:53 am)
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Re: Yrthuk Innar
"Q: Does a half-elemental/half-human have the bonus human feat and skill point?"
I say yes, as well. It's a template; it doesn't eliminate the special abilities of the base-race, it augments them. Any argument that removes the bonus feat/skills would also remove the save bonuses, search benefit, and ability score adjustments that Elves get. I think we all agree that that doesn't happen, right?
Anyway, we've already determined that I2k plus myself equal consensus, so there.
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ZansForCans
Cherub
(12/10/03 10:22 am)
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Re: Yrthuk Innar
Hrmmm... I was thinking of it more as a racial thing (the half- templates change the base skill point calculation if there are racial HD), but I think you guys are right. I was thinking of half-elves in particular, but I know that's not technically a template.
I'll plop it up on the Rules forum for fun, but I think I'll go back and give them their extra points and the Third her bonus feat.
Thanks!
Edit:
Missed Andorax's comment that they're mentioned in the conversion guide too. Here is the answer to my question in black & white:
"Half-elementals gain skills and feats as the base creature."
Ain't simpler than that! But I was convinced already anyway--good job
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info :: demoEdited by: ZansForCans at: 12/10/03 2:24 pm
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ZansForCans
Bloodied Knife Cultist
(12/11/03 10:00 am)
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Re: Yrthuk Innar
And finally, The Inner Fane has been added.
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Andorax
Brother of Venom
(12/11/03 12:11 pm)
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Re: Yrthuk Innar
YAY! My apologies for hte problems, though it looks like they weren't too terribly widespread or problematic (compared to how complex the critters in the area were).
Downhill stretch now, ZansForCans...I can see the finish line from here!
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ZansForCans
Bloodied Knife Cultist
(12/11/03 1:31 pm)
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Re: Yrthuk Innar
Yes, the NPCs are getting more complicated! Fortunately there are a higher fraction of standard races in these last few bits it seems. I'm very glad we're done with all the trogs and k-t's
My slowdown pace is more for RL issues though. I really, really want to be done by the time I leave town for the holidays, in just over a week or so.
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Infiniti2000
Brother of Venom
(2/1/04 12:41 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Errata
Empower Spell does not increase the DC of the spell. Therefore, the empowered lightning bolt from the door is still DC 16. Since the door is not evil, I would not award +10% due to the unhallow.
The wights should have +10hp each due to the aid, and they get +1 on attack rolls. Additionally, they should be CR 5 (mentioned in the module). They have base speed 30ft, but with the breast plates they move at 20ft. I suggest giving them chain shirts because the mobility will help them a lot more than one AC point.
With an Int of 4, can the half-dragon T-Rexes speak or understand a language (say draconic)? Also, with the change in weapons, it should be a light slashing or piercing weapon.
Forgot Tychon's AC: AC 23 (-1 Dex, +10 full plate, +4 heavy shield; touch 9, flat-footed 23), and the base attack bonus of +8 and grapple check +10. Tychon has animate dead prepared, but no onyx gems. I think giving him two onyx gems worth 450gp each would be a good idea, because then he can animate the t-rexes. Anyone care to work up a skeleton half-dragon t-rex? I think the number of spells listed for Tychon does not match the number of spells available. Tychon has protection from energy, not elements.
The First's attack is at +16 due to the aid, which should work with the rod.
The half-elemental template gives a +1 natural armor bonus. The amulet stacks with base natural armor, so the Third's AC should be 24 (flat-footed 20). The Third has 1 too many 5th level spells. She cannot have potions of cure critical wounds. I suggest making it 4 potions of cure serious wounds or a wand of cure critical wounds with 3 charges. She gains the air subtype and DR 10/magic.
Yrthuk Innar is not Festalon Girrot. Aid bestows another +10 hp, so his total should be 111hp. It also adds 1 to the attack roll. His shield is heavy, not large. Half-elementals casts their spell-like abilities using the better of wisdom or intelligence, not charisma. The base DC should therefore be 11. He gains DR 5/magic.
Erdso's flat-footed AC is 11 because he never loses the monk bonus.
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ZansForCans
Oathstalker
(3/6/04 10:36 pm)
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Re: Errata
Quote:
Empower Spell does not increase the DC of the spell. Therefore, the empowered lightning bolt from the door is still DC 16. Since the door is not evil, I would not award +10% due to the unhallow.
Fixed and noted.
Quote:
The wights should have +10hp each due to the aid, and they get +1 on attack rolls. Additionally, they should be CR 5 (mentioned in the module). They have base speed 30ft, but with the breast plates they move at 20ft. I suggest giving them chain shirts because the mobility will help them a lot more than one AC point.
We have comments about aid and undead (i.e. it's mind-affecting and doesn't technically apply) already in there, but I fixed up the text entry for them since the bonus would be +14 (total) over our un-aided default list.
I only get CR 4 for the advancement (+1 per 4 HD). Do you want to build in the unhallow turn bonus? I kind of like keeping the 'default' +10% bonus and just leaving them as CR 4. I'm up for suggestions though.
Quote:
With an Int of 4, can the half-dragon T-Rexes speak or understand a language (say draconic)? Also, with the change in weapons, it should be a light slashing or piercing weapon.
Definitely understand and probably Draconic. I don't think adding speech is warranted since it's not in the base or template. Changed a few bits in the swallow whole section.
Quote:
Forgot Tychon's AC: AC 23 (-1 Dex, +10 full plate, +4 heavy shield; touch 9, flat-footed 23), and the base attack bonus of +8 and grapple check +10. Tychon has animate dead prepared, but no onyx gems. I think giving him two onyx gems worth 450gp each would be a good idea, because then he can animate the t-rexes. Anyone care to work up a skeleton half-dragon t-rex? I think the number of spells listed for Tychon does not match the number of spells available. Tychon has protection from energy, not elements.
I have those stat bits in my current version of the document. Not sure if that was just in the HTML or maybe in an earlier document release.
Added the comments about the gems and added one more that he can only animate one of them (18 HD) per casting.
He needs an extra 2nd level spell. I added cure moderate wounds back in and adjusted some of Andorax's comments to reflect the addition. Fixed up the PfE as well.
Quote:
The First's attack is at +16 due to the aid, which should work with the rod.
It might be debatable since the rods' use their own attack bonus (and aren't evil), but Monte didn't have the aid bonus for either that or his touch, so no help from him! I'll stick it in there since it seems more likely that it would.
Quote:
The half-elemental template gives a +1 natural armor bonus. The amulet stacks with base natural armor, so the Third's AC should be 24 (flat-footed 20). The Third has 1 too many 5th level spells. She cannot have potions of cure critical wounds. I suggest making it 4 potions of cure serious wounds or a wand of cure critical wounds with 3 charges. She gains the air subtype and DR 10/magic.
The amulet does not stack. The bonuses have the same type...
I nuked the (2) on slay living.
I went with the 4 potions to keep the usability similar.
Re: Air subtype... Huh, I glossed over that bit from the conversion document. I have to go back and change the other half-'s as well I guess. Kind of annoying because their special qualities don't exactly match the normal for the subtype. Where does the DR come from though?
Quote:
Yrthuk Innar is not Festalon Girrot. Aid bestows another +10 hp, so his total should be 111hp. It also adds 1 to the attack roll. His shield is heavy, not large. Half-elementals casts their spell-like abilities using the better of wisdom or intelligence, not charisma. The base DC should therefore be 11. He gains DR 5/magic.
By my reading, the part about Int and Wis only count for determining if they can have the spell-like abilities (one needs to be >8 ). The DC is still set by Cha, the default spell-like ability ability.
Again, where's the DR coming from?
Otherwise, all other bits are fixed.
Quote:
Erdso's flat-footed AC is 11 because he never loses the monk bonus.
I had that in already somehow
Thank you for the great fixes!
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msherman
Briar Beast
(3/7/04 5:47 am)
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Re: Errata
Quote:
The amulet does not stack. The bonuses have the same type...
The amulet does stack. The half elemental template says, "Natural armor improves by 1." The amulet says, "an enhancement bonus to his natural armor bonus..."
This is the same as a +2 enhancement on a shield (from an external source, such as Magic Vestment) stacking with the shield itself. There's effectively 6 different types of bonus going on here: armor, shield, natural, armor enhancement, shield enhancement, and natural enhancement.
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Infiniti2000
Night Beast
(3/7/04 8:42 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Errata
"Where does the DR come from though?...Again, where's the DR coming from?"
It comes from the WotC 3.5 Conversion document for half-elemental template. Am I mistaken in assuming that we would be using that, seeing as how it is official?
"By my reading, the part about Int and Wis only count for determining if they can have the spell-like abilities (one needs to be >8 ). The DC is still set by Cha, the default spell-like ability ability."
That doesn't make sense at all. Your Cha could be a 1, say, and you still think the spell-like ability that depends on Int/Wis would use the Cha modifier?
"I only get CR 4 for the advancement (+1 per 4 HD). Do you want to build in the unhallow turn bonus? I kind of like keeping the 'default' +10% bonus and just leaving them as CR 4. I'm up for suggestions though."
No, I was adding +1CR for the part about 'added stuff that helps in a minor way' like the armor that they are wearing. Monte thought it deserved CR 5 for that and I think the 3.5 MM bears him out. Also, the fact that they use exceptional tactics in the uneven terrain and attacking in coordinated waves should make the challenge more difficult, accounting for more than the aid. Fwiw, I still feel the aid should be included.
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ZansForCans
Oathstalker
(3/7/04 2:01 pm)
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Re: Errata
Quote:
It comes from the WotC 3.5 Conversion document for half-elemental template. Am I mistaken in assuming that we would be using that, seeing as how it is official?
Hehe! I had to hunt for a while to find where that was! I thought maybe I missed an update to the conversion guide, but I just wasn't reading further than the half-elemental paragraph blurb.
There's an 'Air Element' template that's different from the half-elemental template. The Air Element isn't a half-elemental (air), at least by my reading (notice that the level adjustment is different, for example). But I don't have Deities & Demigods. Someone want to double-check?
Quote:
That doesn't make sense at all. Your Cha could be a 1, say, and you still think the spell-like ability that depends on Int/Wis would use the Cha modifier?
Sure, this is standard for a lot of the half- templates. Take a look at the half-celestial and -fiend in v3.5. It fortunately states how to calculate the DC right in the monster blocks. If you read the intro of the MM 3.0 or the glossary of the MM 3.5 they both have Cha as the modifier for all spell-like abilities without even a "most of the time/sometimes/etc."
I think the way to look at it is at some level you have to know (Int/Wis) how to pull these tricks off. But that doesn't necessarily affect how well you can pull them off. Just like Sor's, innate magical power is typically linked to Cha.
Quote:
No, I was adding +1CR for the part about 'added stuff that helps in a minor way' like the armor that they are wearing. Monte thought it deserved CR 5 for that and I think the 3.5 MM bears him out. Also, the fact that they use exceptional tactics in the uneven terrain and attacking in coordinated waves should make the challenge more difficult, accounting for more than the aid. Fwiw, I still feel the aid should be included.
OK, that's fair enough. I'll leave it at 5 unless anyone else has comments. I know the aid should probably be left in. I hope I've made it easy enough to include back in. I just think we should keep to the rules as close as possible even though it changes the intent here a little more than usual...
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Infiniti2000
Night Beast
(3/7/04 4:02 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Errata
The half-elemental template is in the Manual of the Planes, and the DR reference is in the corresponding 3.5 Conversion Doc.
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ZansForCans
Oathstalker
(3/8/04 6:16 pm)
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Re: Errata
Yes, yes. But the "Half-Elemental" is a completely different template than "Air Element" or "Earth Element". Half-Elementals gain the appropriate subtype but not the "... Element" template listed further down.
At least that's my reading. Sorry that wasn't clearer above.
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