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Eltern
Faen
(7/19/03 7:24 pm)
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Balor= Death?
)IMC, a succubus level drained one of the PCs during the night, and replaced him in the party, trying to betray them at a key moment. I gave the controls of the succubus to the player, who I trusted with seperating player and character desires/knowledge (and he's really quite good at it, I'm proud :D ). Well, when things got really, really bad for him when the party turned on him in the inn of the Welcome Wench, he tried to summon a balor. Successful. ::b link:: The balor almost immediately kills the succubus for bothering him, and the party teleports away to saftey.

Does the balor pretty much conclusively destroy Hommlet? Am I safe in this assumption?

Also: Is the balor CR too high? My group and I are of the opinion that they're really just not tough enough for the 18 CR.

Eltern

Trithereon
Verrik
(7/19/03 8:59 pm)
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Re: Balor= Death?
Remember that the Succubus summoning is just that: a summoning. The MM says that any demon summoned returns from where they came from an hour after being summoned.

So, if the Succubus summons a Balor the Balor is only a problem/ally for an hour at most ... also remember that a summoned demon can not use its summoning powers.

However, imagine all the havoc a Balor can cause in that hour!

Trithereon
Verrik
(7/19/03 9:11 pm)
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Re: Balor= Death?
Oh yeah,

Since this is a summoning done by the succubus then it only takes a simple Dispel Magic to rid yourself of the Balor.

I think Burne could easily succeed at a spellcaster check against the succubus' caster level to dispel her summoned Balor.

So, I guess the demise of Hommlet isn't a foregone conclusion.

Eltern
Faen
(7/20/03 5:15 am)
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Hmm..
Would he think of that, though? If you saw a balor, just randomly, attacking your town, would you think of dispell magic?

And I think his Wall of Fire at will equate to all of Hommlet being up in flames in one hour.

Eltern

ronin
Faen
(7/20/03 9:26 am)
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RP implications
If this balor did not destroy the entire town and someone that witnessed the "PC" summon this beast survives your party could be in for some trouble once the word spreads. The fact they teleported away afterwards does not make a good case for them either.

I don't know the exact circumstances but it doesn't sound like a good situation to be in for the party. Let us know how it goes.

ronin

Trithereon
Verrik
(7/20/03 9:56 am)
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Re: Hmm..
Quote:
Would he think of that, though? If you saw a balor, just randomly, attacking your town, would you think of dispell magic?


He might not think of it directly but in defending his town he may try to use dispel magic and accidentally dispel the summoning.

Or, he might think of it. A balor on the streets of Hommlet is not in anyway normal. It might be an illusion. It may be summoned. Or, it may be called. He doesn't know, but a highly intelligent person is going to weigh all his options carefully and make as effective a response as possible.

Its a moot point as I just checked his memorized spells and he doesn't have Dispel Magic as an option.

Is there anyway that they realize, or are instructed, about the "easy" way to deal with the succubus-summoned balor and someone teleports back to Hommlet to dispel the balor before it does too much damage (to the town and the player's reputation)?

Eltern
Faen
(7/20/03 10:08 am)
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Well..
The party was in their room in the Inn. They had the succubus posing as their party member tied up. He went ethereal. They presumed he went invisible or teleported and immediately split up, going every direction all over town to look for him. One of the PCs stays for 2 rounds to pick up some belongins. Succubus summons Balor in their bedroom. The other PCs blinks, then jumps out the window, screaming at his party (who are now not more than 50 feet away on avg., to get together to teleport). Succubus comes out of ethereal, in succubus form, and attempts to explain things to the balor. Balor kills her. NOBODY SEES THIS. Party still does not -know- that he was a succubus. Party teleports away to Enstad about 2 rounds later. Balor beats things up. During his beat down, the REAL PC, the one the succubus was impersonating, escapes from his prison in the basement (four levels lower), and goes on a wild ride trying to get the abyss out of there. He might be able to figure out that the balor was "summoned" by the succubus, but wouldn't really know that dispel magic would work on it, nor would have much time to tell anyone, as his legs got crushed when the Inn collapsed on him. Ewwie. He managed to get in the river and float down to Nulb, through a series of ingenious actions on his part, :)

I'm so proud of all of my players, because they were all sitting RIGHT THERE, at the playing table, the whole time. They seperated player/character knowledge so well. :D

Eltern

Trithereon
Verrik
(7/20/03 10:44 pm)
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Re: Well..
It looks like Hommlet may be in for 600 rounds of unholy hell.

Ack!

madfox
Verrik
(7/21/03 3:11 am)
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Re: Well..
:eek Why the hack did the succubus summon the balor for? As a DM I would have intervened right then and there. The succubus had no reason to summon the balor, because her life was not threatened in the least. Besides of risking her life to an angry balor, it also would mean that she drew a LOT of attention to Hommlet, which would seriously harm the plotting of the Cult. No sane succubus would have summoned the critter under those circumstances. O well, what is done, is done...

Unless Yves has a dispel evil or dismissal prepared, the town will be destroyed within an hour. The result of which will be that the temple of St. Cuthbert sends in a squad of high level clerics to investigate the scene. Balors do not appear out of nowhere, so either there is one insane wizard walking around or something else freaky happened such as perhaps the Cult of Elemental Evil returning. This in turn would force the Cult into hiding once again. Or if you like the idea of the Temple of St. Cuthbert being infiltrated, perhaps spies of the Cult travel along with this Inquisition and they will try to shift the blame on the PCs. Even though the clerics of St. Cuthbert will eventually realize the PCs are hardly to blame, it will cost both the clerics and the PCs time.

One thing, how did the PCs realize the balor was a balor and that is was so dangerous that they needed to flee immidiately? Sounds like a bit of meta-gaming to me. Then again, who blames the players for such behaviour? ;)

msherman
Faen
(7/21/03 4:49 am)
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Re: Well..
You've seen the picture of the Balor in the 3.0e MM (p43, rear), right? That's pretty much the definitive Demon. It's reasonable they'd run like hell (sorry, Abyss), even if they don't know exactly what kind of beast it was.

madfox
Verrik
(7/21/03 5:57 am)
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Re: Well..
Have you seen the picture of any other fiend or dangerous creatures or any undead thing for that matter? Now if your PCs run for anything that looks dangerous unless they know from other sources or their own experience they can beat it, then it is a whole other matter.

Madfox,
who was once very proud of his players when their 1st level characters met skeletons for the first time in their life (no cleric in their group) and decided to flee. They later returned when they had an IC discussion with a cleric about skeletons.

Taelohn
Faen
(7/21/03 10:50 am)
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Balor art.
There is no picture of a balor in the 3rd Edition Monster Manual. There is one in the 3.5 Monster Manual, however.

3.5 MM art gallery: www.wizards.com/default.a.../20030712a
The balor specifically: www.wizards.com/dnd/image...5_PG41.jpg

You may have been thinking of the Pit Fiend.
www.wizards.com/dnd/image...5_PG57.jpg

Eltern
Faen
(7/21/03 11:35 am)
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Balor
I said it looked something "quite like the mofo Gandalf fights in FotR/TTT." The PC blinked once, then said "I'm jumping out the window."

And yes, IMC the party has a habit of running away from things. They're very good at it:D

Eltern

Caedrel
Faen
(7/21/03 6:36 pm)
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Re: Balor
Running's the right thing to do in many circumstances, but it sounds like they didn't quite appreciate the situation they were leaving the ordinary folk of Hommlet in... bailing out of a dungeon that you're intruding into is a bit different from abandoning the town you've been using as your home base. I'd want to describe the utter devastation, the terrible loss of life, and the heroic but ultimately fruitless and tragic efforts of Burne, Rufus, Y'Dey and all the other significant NPCs for whom this is home to try and drive this point home.

Sure, the Balor may have killed the PCs easily, but if they'd stayed and tried to fight the thing for the sake of the people of Hommlet, the suggested team of clerics could have brought them all back with True Resurrections. It could have been a catalyst for the good aligned organisations to really be come on board with the PCs' quest against the Temple. They may still get this help, since it's now clear there's something *very* bad going on, but the group should be viewed with disappointment at best, even though their innocence can be established with magic...

All of which is why I'd agree with the earlier post saying that the succubus summoning the balor wasn't such a good idea. The dooomdreamers are going to mightily angry with her, particularly as it draws so much attention to them in a region they want to begin operations in ie. at the Recovered Temple...

deafdungeonmasterRIT
Litorian
(7/21/03 6:44 pm)
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hmm
Let Hedrack deal with Balor personally after his henchmen perished from Balor's assault.

Let Hedrack defeat Balor and then suffer.

Let Hedrack gain levels to the point that he can as well as become 20th level cleric (for taking Balor on alone)

Let the Triad be SO terrific by Hedrack's new powers that they have decides whatever Hedrack should be eligable for a test to become a prophet

Let Hedrack call the shot an dthen become the "Fourth"

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