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msherman
Faen
(8/5/03 7:12 am)
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Re: Moolowik
Ok, I've added the SQ/SA descriptions to Moolowik. Zans, I've added a changelog to the start of this thread to keep you up to date.

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/5/03 4:48 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Moolowik
Moolowik's Will save is still +4. +3 from kuo-toa (2 HD good save), +1 from rogue 4 (poor save), and +0 from Wis 10.

msherman
Faen
(8/5/03 6:51 pm)
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Re: Moolowik
Thanks, I2k. I forgot that his Wisdom was lower than average, and just added the Kuotoa save from the MM to the R4 save.

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/6/03 10:14 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: Moolowik
Looks good. I'll mark you down as done for this part. If you'd be kind enough though to retitle the first post to just Map C (WBC) or something, I'll post all the WBC changes to this thread in order to make ZFC's life easier.

msherman
Faen
(8/6/03 7:32 pm)
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Re: Moolowik
Actually, I don't think that's a good thing to do... the area in this thread spans three different maps. A thread per "complex" seems more manageable to me. Zans, which would you prefer?

ZansForCans 
Litorian
(8/6/03 8:22 pm)
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Re: Moolowik
It doesn't make much difference to me either way. Although I'm not one to pump up the thread count on the forum, having shorter, focused threads makes it easier to keep track of the discussions about the corrections.


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ZansForCans 
Litorian
(8/9/03 9:09 pm)
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Re: 3.5: CRM 15-35 (between Main Gate and West Bridge)
Incorporating this thread now...

Nice job on Vrathris. I have one teeny comment, but it doesn't change anything in his stats. The HD amount of Spellcraft ranks were free in 3.0, so he only had 112 points spent, which matched his allotment (6+2) x 14 = 112. Really makes no difference though since he needs something in there, but there you have it. :)


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ZansForCans 
Litorian
(8/10/03 11:00 am)
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Re: Moolowik
I was double checking Moolowik and put him through the skill calc. Either I'm missing something basic, or he's got one whole extra level (+9 points) of Rogue skills in the text. Could someone check this out and see if I'm missing something?

zans.clanplaid.net/v35/Moolowik.xls

I think he should have 13x2 + 2 = 28 racial points (same as K-T in the MM) and 4 x (8+1) = 36 Rogue points to spend (64 total). I'm coming up with 73 though.

Thoughts? Help?

Also, he now should have Swim +9 listed as a skill (just a racial bonus + Str). His Knowledge (local) is gone from this list. An oversight or deliberate? Does he have any points left to get it anyway?

Edit: added some more minor bits.


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Edited by: ZansForCans  at: 8/10/03 11:14 am
msherman
Faen
(8/10/03 1:55 pm)
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Re: Moolowik
Hrm. My calculations for what Moolowik should have were 4*(8+1) + (2+1)*(2+3)=51 points. Where do you get 13x2+2 from?

Anyway, I will add the racial Swim bonus.

Edited by: msherman at: 8/10/03 1:56 pm
ZansForCans 
Litorian
(8/10/03 3:45 pm)
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Re: Moolowik
Sorry, I was starting with trying to decompose his 3.0 skills, (where the racial is 28) first--that wasn't very clear. I agree he has 51 for the 3.5 points.


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msherman
Faen
(8/10/03 7:05 pm)
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Re: Moolowik
Ah, I see.

I forgot about Knowledge (local), but he's already over-spent; as I mentioned, I had to drop points out of Escape Artist just to hit 51. Do you think I should move a point from somewhere into Knowledge (local)? I could drop a point out of Knowledge (religion), maybe; K-T dropped 2 points in their primary knowledge skill from 3.0 to 3.5, so it would be reasonable for him to drop them there.

ZansForCans 
Litorian
(8/10/03 9:18 pm)
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Re: Moolowik
::something clicks::

Ah, cool. I now see we came to the same conclusion then. You had him 6 points over and with those extra 3, you have him at +9 as well.

OK, with that out of the way, I'm still having trouble reproducing the current skill block with 51 points. I have 3 points in each of the racial base skills (15 points total) first to reproduce their base skills. One thing I just noticed is that the kuo-toa stats in 3.5 do not include the armor check penalty for the shield (they did in 3.0), since it's an optional equip in 3.5. Could that be part of our difference? Moolowik needs to have his armor check explicitly added as well as having the ability adjustment (Dex & Wis are different) if you start with the racial base stats.

As for the Knowledge, I realized that we can't leave that at +6 since the 2 extra ranks would have to be bought cross-class with rogue points. Move Silently looks too high as well since he can only put 9 ranks max and has a +1 Dex then -2 for the shield. And, I told you wrong about the Swim since it didn't include his armor check penalty. Sheesh! He's becoming a real PitA.

So, here's a suggestion:

zans.clanplaid.net/v35/Moolowik2.xls

I did something tricky with the skill calculator here. First, it is all v3.5. The first page does a reverse on a base kuo-toa (abilities, armor check, skill totals) to get the spent points out. The second page is Moolowik (modified abilities, armor check) with an approximation of your distribution of rogue skill points added in the second column (normally the 3.5 column).

Check it out and see what you think (or what I've missed).


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msherman
Faen
(8/11/03 4:13 am)
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Re: Moolowik
Ah, the armor check is what messed me up. I probably screwed that up on the Kuo-Toa I did in the Water Temple, too; could you please take a look at those, too?

I like your solution, but I'd suggest taking the two ranks out of Escape Artist and putting them into Knowledge (Local) instead, for a +3 (as written in the module); Moolowik is a spy by trade, so he really should have a good knowledge of the locale (ie: the CRM and area).

ZansForCans 
Litorian
(8/11/03 5:35 am)
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Re: Moolowik
Sounds good to me.

C15-C35 have been added.

I'm going to finish work on the WBC and then I'll head over and check out the Water Temple for you.


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Edited by: ZansForCans  at: 8/11/03 8:34 pm
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