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Tenacious B
Faen
(7/29/03 8:30 am)
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What if a Barghest eats Lareth?
I am starting a group in RttToEE mid August. They are an all drow/monster party, including a Barghest.
So, what if a Barghest eats Lareth the Beautiful?
Obviously he, and any cultist, are going to work hard to avoid such an event, but what if it can't be avoided. I don't want to go Hand-O-god on them.
My first instinct is the Barghest becomes the chosen of Tharizdun.
But I'm still reading and studying the text, so what other options are there? This hasn't happened yet, and may not happen. But I need to be prepared. I know these players, if they kill Lareth and capture the body - she will feed on him.
Thanks
TB
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Andorax
Verrik
(7/29/03 9:29 am)
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Re: What if a Barghest eats Lareth?
Aside from the fact that if you're using the "Nulb as starting base" idea, they'd have no conceivable reason until such time as doing so will be part of the "end game", I don't see a problem with it.
My guess is that Consuming Lareth will result in there no longer being a Champion...the plot is foiled, the badguys are done in...that is, until the priests of "Big T" can get someone high enough to throw around a True Res or Miracle and flip a coin right-side-up.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
Tenacious B
Faen
(7/29/03 11:07 am)
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Re: What if a Barghest eats Lareth?
My concern is that they would get into a conflict with Lareth in expanded Nulb. I think Nulb will have cult agents specifically to secretly guard Lareth until he is reclaimed. And I will also make him an unappealing target, either too dangerous seeming, too seemingly useful, seemingly unimportant, or some combination of the three. Probably a healthy mix of dangerous and unimportant.
I totally agree, that if they eat him at the end of a final gambit game over they win. I was more concerned about eating him to early. I think I have it covered.
Thanks
TB
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Andorax
Verrik
(7/29/03 12:07 pm)
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Re: What if a Barghest eats Lareth?
There's no reason for the cultists to be doing ANYTHING about Lareth yet. He's not part of the cult right now, he's not anything. He's a washed-up has-been that doesn't have anything going for him, and is basically just idling his days away.
Even in "Reoccupied Nulb", he's not going to be anyone of importance in all likelyhood. He doesn't have any marketable skills, so he's probably not even a shopkeeper of any sort (although you could bump his Int by 1 and make him one with a relevant Knowledge, Craft or Profession).
It's not until the PCs are well on their way through bashing away at the CRM that the Cult discovers Lareth's importance. That's whey they realize who he is and how much he matters, find him, raise him (if needed), test him, and proclaim him Champion.
I see your party killing (and consuming) Lareth as about as likely as a standard party deciding to beat up Alphon and take his stuff (and if your first reaction was "who?", that's exactly my point...he's the Halfling Blacksmith of Hommlet).
At the point in time of the adventure the PCs are curently in, he's not just seemingly unimportant...he IS unimportant.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
Tenacious B
Faen
(7/29/03 4:29 pm)
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Re: What if a Barghest eats Lareth?
Unfortunately, with these players, playing these characters, I have to say it is highly likely that they will, in fact, kill and eat someone as unimportant as Alphon the irrelevant halfling blacksmith. That is why I have to creat the reoccupied Nulb and/or underground trading post to begin with. That sort of thing just won't fly in Homlet, at least not for long.
I have a little more thinking to do before we start, but I see my options as either, they just never encounter Lareth, which seems a little lame, or having him protected so if they get a little roudy with him there is a way out.
Regardless, I have about month till start, and only a few gnolls to paint in that time.
Thanks for the sounding board.
TB
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 Infiniti2000
Verrik
(7/30/03 5:46 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: What if a Barghest eats Lareth?
Lareth is a tough nut to crack. You can probably assume he is always expecting trouble and will be prepared for any attack by the party, especially realizing what a danger they represent. I'm sure Lareth knows what a barghest is, so in any scuffle, he would target the barghest first and kill him. Since a barghest is an outsider, he can't even be raised. Anyway, my point is that perhaps you don't have to worry about it.
Alternatively, assuming Lareth is killed and eaten, a deity can always force the resurrection of a being. Although he's trapped, it's assumed Big T can still grant 9th level spells (he grants at least 8th according to the First's spell list), so I see no reason why Big T wouldn't just true res Lareth, overcoming anything blocking such an action. This is only necessary assuming you don't like the idea of using someone else as a Champion.
You're options, as I see them, are open, so by the time you have to make a decision on the Champion, you'll have a better feel for the campaign.
The biggest problem in the adventure will be motivating the players to continue. Unless they just go by rote, there is little to encourage evil characters to continue such an obviously dangerous course of action. Do you have any ideas on this? Have you seen the previous threads on this? The threads are probably long gone by now, though it really should be in the FAQ or BoB for ideas for an evil party.
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Andorax
Verrik
(7/30/03 8:58 am)
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Re: What if a Barghest eats Lareth?
I've an easier suggested route.
In the unlikely event that Lareth gets eaten before the PCs head for the CRM...choose some other resident of Nulb to be the Champion. Nierethi perhaps...or whichever (if any) of the cultists escape the PC's assault (and appetite).
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
Tenacious B
Faen
(7/30/03 10:46 am)
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Eeck - start on Saturday
Well, turns out we are starting Saturday, and not in a month as previously thought.
I reread a lot last night, including Hedrack's Journal. I never did find out exactly when the Illithid identifies Lareth as the champion (I keep saying chosen because of my Buffy addiction - it is a problem, the addiction I mean). I assume this was intentionally left unquantified by Monte because there are too many variables for a set time to be stated.
I really want the party to encounter Lareth, because he has so much RP to offer, and because he can drop clues to keep the party on focus. On the subject of focus, because they include a preistess of Lloth, the idea is that they are there to seek favour with the Spider Queen by destroying the traitors who have forsaken Lloth. This should lead them to learn of the cult and ToAC and to the conclusion that Lloth would displeased by the destruction of the world - a world that supplies her people with a home and many races to be enslaved - "lots of people walking around like happy meals with legs."
To incorporate Homlet, they may well start off, based in occupied Nulb, assassinating one of the Cult agents in Homlet, figuring that that Cult agent is mistakenly believed to be serving the drow 'traitors.'
Anyway, even if the Cult has not yet identified Lareth as the champion, surely Tharizdun has. I'm thinking he has enough influence to have a few incorporeals dedicated to defending Lareth until big T's doomdreamers/oracle figure it out. Plus, there will be Cult spies in Nulb, and even though the Cult has not identified Lareth as Champion, it seems from Hedrack's journal that Hedrack has some twisted fatherly affection for Lareth. He did raise Lareth, and refers to Lareth's madness as "a waste." Those spies could have instructions from Hedrack to the effect of "watch out for the crazy man for me and I won't forget it."
In fact, I wonder if these seemingly irrational feelings towards Lareth are weak or early signs from Tharizdun that Lareth is the Champion? Anyway...
So, yes, if threatened Lareth will focus on the Barghest, and he will quickly have support from some difficult to turn shadows. Finally, Lareth himself will seek to break contact ASAP. Lareth's opening move of any combat will probably be Wither Limb (BoVD- but i have recheck it is open to clerics) or some similar incapacitating attack followed by retreat.
Should all else fail, another NPC will be Champion.
I'll post how the saturday session goes...
thanks
TB
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ZansForCans 
Litorian
(7/30/03 12:06 pm)
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Re: Eeck - start on Saturday
Another random Barghest question... are you allowing advancement through consuming as well as XP? How have you decided to handle this? I love the idea of a monstrous campaign down the road and this is a curious situation to have to deal with!
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Tenacious B
Faen
(7/30/03 12:22 pm)
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Barghest XP
I have thought about this issue, and an XP bonus seems good, but I worry about keeping the characters levels balanced.
I don't normally require training to level, but if I did consuming a creature would be a cool leveling gimmick for the Barghest.
I was thinking of a luck bonus of +1 to attack rolls and saves for 1 minute per HD of consumed creature.
On the other hand, I was thinking maybe she has to feed, just as I have to eat lunch each day. I plan to talk to her about it before start.
Ultimately, the player took the class because after she finishes the monster advancement (following Savage Species rules obviously) she intends to take assassin levels. She figures she can charge a lot more because anything she kills will be almost unressurectable - assuming she gets a clean kill and has time to feed. *shudder*
In the past two campaigns she played a paladin, and I'm slightly frightened by this new turn of events...
TB
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shidara
Faen
(7/31/03 6:04 am)
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Re: What if a Barghest eats Lareth?
I say LET them eat Lareth.
The First is 15th level, which means that a scroll of miracle or True Ressurrection will most likely be successfully read, and there's a 50% chance that Lareth is recoverable . . .
The DD figure out that Lareth is the Champ. They travel to Nulb, discover that he's gone. A quick Commune reveals that he has been slain. Not knowing where the body is or how he died, either True Ressurrection or Miracle would be sufficient to bring him back from the Barghest's tummy (assuming that makes the 50-50 roll to be recoverable by mortal magic).
Simple, and won't they be surprised when they see his smug face leering back at them at the climax? Plus, the beauty is that if you want to be truly fair, rol the 50% in secret - if Lareth fails, go to plan B - as suggested here, somebody else is actually the Champ.
Me, I'd fudge the 50% roll for effect. Drama and all, you know . . .
Shidara
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