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Offgall Fizziwigg
Faen
(8/4/03 5:59 am)
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Earth Elemental powers:
The earth elementals have the "push" ability, which allows them to initiate a bull rush without provoking AoOs. What good is it in the earth temple? There are no cliffs to bull rush people off of. Could I crush someone into a wall for damage? If so, what would the damage be?

madfox
Verrik
(8/4/03 6:03 am)
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Re: Earth Elemental powers:
When I ran some battles in the Earth Temple I had the clerics cast soften earth and stone on the rock floor (which I ruled was unworked and already consisted of a layer of rubble and earth in some areas). This worked great. I can imagine that elementals might want to bulls rush characters into the resulting muck. There are no rules though for smacking characters into a wall. Since I doubt it would do more damage then a slam, I would just keep it at a slam attack.

Offgall Fizziwigg
Faen
(8/4/03 6:16 am)
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Re: Earth Elemental powers:
That was another question I was going to ask, but I thought I might sound like an idiot if I was wrong about it. So I could bull rush them into the sand and muck and smother them? How could the character get out of the sand? How deep does that sand and muck go?

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/4/03 6:32 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: Earth Elemental powers:
The best use for push is when there are other opponents threatening the PC and will get attacks of opportunity from the resulting bull rush.

Siobharek 
Verrik
(8/4/03 6:33 am)
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ezSupporter

Re: Earth Elemental powers:
Another aspect of the Push ability is the fact that it can break up lines pretty quick. If the fighter gets pushed back into the wizard's square, the wizard may need to make a Concentration check in order to cast his spell, or the fighter may not get all of his Dex bonus because the wizard's in the way.

Apart from that, while it isn't at all wrong to post that question here, you might get additional response over at the D&D Rules forum.

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Andorax
Verrik
(8/4/03 6:35 am)
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Re: Earth Elemental powers:
Think tactically! There are at least two other strong benefits I can think of to bull-rushing someone on a flat, open plain.

1) Remember that a bull's rush can cause the victim to, by moving, provoke attacks of opportunity. Rush 'em right past allies who get extra shots at 'em.

2) Remember that PCs have formation plans as well...then disrupt them. The fighters stand in front, the wizards in back....so bull's rush the fighter back until he's sandwitched right up against the wizard. Especially if you have a bigger elemental with reach, you can then smack at "namby, pamby, casty boy" without having to go 'round.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/4/03 6:38 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: Earth Elemental powers:
Oh yeah, Offgall, since you posted in another thread about the xorn, it seems like you might have them both in the same combat. The best idea here is to use Andorax's second strategy. The xorn can move through the ground to pop up behind the wizard, then the EE can push the fighter all the way into the xorn. It creates a big tangled mess, just ripe for elemental nastiness.

PS Did you convert to 3.5? I'm not sure if you did or not as you left conflicting messages. Anyway, this might be significant in that standing up from prone now provokes an AoO, which offers additional tactical advantages to the bull rush opponent into an occupied square.

Offgall Fizziwigg
Faen
(8/4/03 6:40 am)
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Re: Earth Elemental powers:
Alright, right on. I am still very much a learning DM, so your responses are greatly appreciated. I prolly should have posted this on a different board, but I wanted answers angled towards this module. And I got some good answers. Thanks all! I cant wait to use it.

madfox
Verrik
(8/4/03 6:40 am)
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Re: Earth Elemental powers:
Quote:
1) Remember that a bull's rush can cause the victim to, by moving, provoke attacks of opportunity. Rush 'em right past allies who get extra shots at 'em.


This only works if the elemental is willing to take the risk of getting hit as well. Remember people there is 25% chance that somebody attacking the bull's rush victim hits the bull's rusher instead.

Andorax
Verrik
(8/4/03 8:18 am)
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Re: Earth Elemental powers:
And ooooh....evil priests are going to be so concerned about the welfare of their summoned and called allies.

That's why it's a perfect tactic for EEs and such, and a less-than-perfect one for your party's fighter.

A good reminder of the rule, madfox...one which should be properly administered. But certainly not one that negates the tactic.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

madfox
Verrik
(8/4/03 8:36 am)
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Re: Earth Elemental powers:
Sure, when a summoned creature gets the command to use a certain tactic it works fine. Just remember that without such a command (which can only be given in Terran - and only a few clerics actually speak that language) an earth elemental is not bound to use too complicated tactics that depend on the group (they are not lawful afterall). Giving a command is also NOT a free action, though to be honest, I am not sure what kind of action it is in 3.5.

Offgall Fizziwigg
Faen
(8/4/03 8:57 am)
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Re: Earth Elemental powers:
I think an EE would think its power to be greater than the group, and that it would not hesitate to push an opponent back, causing chaos in thier ranks. Then it would pummel the opponnet it rushed. I think I will have the EE tunnel in behind the party, and bull rush the casters into the its own ranks of fighters. It really depends on how the fight begins. My PCs have a choice of either north to the Earth Temple or south to the ettin. If they go to the Earth Temple immediately, they could make a quiet approach and take some of the trogs by surprise. If they wait to move, then the temple will have a small garrison, including the swordmaster, trog warriors, two earth mephits and a % chance of Miikolak and her EE.

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